Talk:Gesamtkunstwerk

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I've added the Babel Fish translation, "synthesis of the arts," as a literal translation. I realize that Babel Fish translations are notoriously, y'know... bad, so anyone with any real knowledge of the language feel free to change it by all means. DTM 04:27, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

How does one pronounce the word properly? Shawnc 23:37, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I think it's pronounced something like "geh-sahmt-koonst-vehrk", though admittedly, that's just a guess based on my limited knowledge of German pronounciation. --Eddy1701 03:28, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, you hit it quite well. The "geh" sounds a bit like "ge" in armageddon, "sahmt" uses a rather short vowel like in "sum", the "oo" in "koohnst" is a short vowel like in "cookie", and well: "vehrk" - just think of "v-air-k".

However, I'm not sure wether the *meaning* of "Gesamtkunstwerk" is accurately described. It may be true that the term was coined by Wagner (or coined to describe Wagner's style), but in today's German the meaning ist different: It's just "the entirety of an artist's works" - pretty much like "complete artwork", but with an emphasis on a systematic interpretation of an artist's work by critic and researchers (would you write it like that?).

It's a bit like "pile of bricks" and "house". The number of bricks may be the same, but the house would be the "Gesamtkunstwerk". It's not only the "complete artwork", but also "completed artwork". If the artist died before finishing his work, well, it would be something like an unfinished Gesamtkunstwerk. Usually you don't refer to a living artist's work as Gesamtkunstwerk, because the entirety (and the meaning of the entirety of his works) is still nascent. (Hope this wasn't too complicated ...) -- C. Deelmann (talk) 17:53, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Quite wrong, Mr. Deelmann! Gesamtkunstwerk to this day refers to artwork that incorporates different areas of art supporting each other to convey meaning. Perhaps you were thinking of "Gesamtwerk"?

The term "Gesamtkunstwerk" was not coined by Wagner, who did use it to describe his operas. It was coined a little earlier by a German philosopher. For a decent description of the term see the German version of Wikipedia (if you can read German that is). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.204.245.30 (talk) 14:32, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Synthesis of the Arts"

The phrase "synthesis of the arts" is not a literal translation, it's a dictionary definition. The literal translation is mentioned in the first sentence of this article: "gesamt" (geh-ZAHMT) means "total" and "Kunstwerk" (KOONST-vehrk) means "artwork." Notice that calling "synthesis of the arts" a literal translation contradicts the first sentence. So I've changed the phrasing.Drollison 04:05, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Last paragraph

The paragraph about Wagner's theatrical innovations has nothing to do with Gesamtkunstwerk. The design of the theatre and house lighting are not part of his concept of the creation of the art form itself.

[edit] First Use

In the German language Wikipedia, it claims that philosopher Eusebius Trahndorff first used the term in "Ästhetik oder Lehre von der Weltanschauung und Kunst" (1827) Can anyone confirm this claim? DutchTreat (talk) 22:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC)