Talk:Gertrude Bell
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[edit] Creation of Iraq
Could anyone please provide a reference for the following quote:
"I don't for a moment doubt that the final authority must be in the hands of the Sunnis, in spite of their numerical inferiority," Bell once said. "Otherwise you will have a ... theocratic state, which is the very devil."
Cheers, --SimmiBoi 12:43, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
- Ok, found it. The article is still lacking in references, though. --SimmiBoi 15:38, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The Arab Revolt
The claim about her being more instrumental in the Arab Revolt than T.E. Lawrence is surprising; I am not a Bell expert but have read approximately everything by/about Lawrence, and do not believe this contention to be supported by evidence I've seen. It is certainly counter to conventional wisdom, and as such needs some evidence. Absent this, I think the claims should be written out of the entry. Tim Bray 08:08, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Digging around on Google, I cannot find any site that makes the claims in this article, though they all mention that she played a very important role, and that Lawrence could not have achieved what he did without her. She criticizes him in the letters she wrote in 1920, but not before or after that year. Iaen 14:47, 2004 Nov 22 (UTC)
On reading the article with no prior knowledge of Bell, or indeed of Iraq, the impression I receive is that the writers are attempting to 'sell' the historical importance of this lady whilst also distancing themselves from the thing for which she is important, i.e her imperialistic, disastrous, nation-building. -Ashley Pomeroy 11:48, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It seems remarkable that every spy, king, or agent of the British Crown of any note who encountered her owed his entire knowledge of espionage, statecraft, or the Near East to that encounter. Sadly, her philosophy of life and of gender roles seems to have precluded the possibility of her enjoying any legacy other than single-handedly drawing the borders of Iraq, which is hardly a claim to fame, even if it were true. The woman was commended by the Crown for her service to the Empire, and for that I honor her memory. I will die accomplishing far less than she did--at least as a scholar, I am fairly sure. However, it seems that modern agendas may be at work in the phraseology of the Article, and it should be read with that in mind. Readers should note however that her government acknowledged her exploits by awarding her the Order of the British Empire (see Wikipedia entry): "King George V founded the Order to fill gaps in the British honours system: The Most Honourable Order of the Bath honoured only senior military officers and civil servants; The Most Distinguished Order of St Michael and St George honoured diplomats... In particular, King George V wished to honour the many thousands of people who served in numerous non-combatant capacities during the First World War... This Order of Knighthood [i.e., the Order of the British Empire] has a more democratic character than the exclusive orders of the Bath or Saint Michael and Saint George, and in its early days was not held in high esteem..." (emphasis added). Lawrence, on the other hand, was admitted to the Order of the Bath in appreciation for his service. --R.M., Esq. August 2, 2006.
It's generally understood that Hussein, Sharif of Mecca, and his sons initiated a revolt against the Ottoman Empire in Arabia, but didn't have weapons to overcome those used in counter attacks by the Turks. The British in the Egypt Expeditionary Force saw that it could be of advantage to them to back the Sharif with supplies and weapons, but were stymied for a while, because the authority to launch operations in Arabia had not been apportioned between E.E.F. Hq in Cairo and the India E. E. F. Hq in Delhi which was responsible for ops in Mesopotamia (and had already sent forces to capture Basrah and then Baghdad when GLB was invited by D. G. Hogarth to join his unit in Cairo by Nov. 1915). She was there, ostensibly, to share information about the geography of northern Arabia that she knew from her travels, but which was not yet in GHQ Cairo files nor reflected on their maps. During her first two months she worked to fill in missing data, but also became aware of the turf sorting needing to be done between the two headquarters. Having met so many high placed government officials due to her family ties and traveling, (she even knew almost everyone in Hogarth's group before she was sent there, and Janet Hogarth, his sister, was Gertrude's classmate at Oxford and best friend for nerly 20 years). Gertrude used her writing talent to describe both the problem, and a proposal to set up liaison channels to coordinate actions and keep one and the other headquarters informed. She also provided good advice as to whom to send the report to in Whitehall to get prompt attention and backing. It worked, and by the end of January, 1916, she was dispatched by Gen. Clayton to Delhi to brief and sell the new Viceroy, Lord Chas. Hardinge (an acquaintance from her youth) on the proposal, as his support would be required for Cairo to go ahead with any plans for supporting the uprising. The upshot of it was that she not only made the case successfully, and smoothed the way, but was kept by I.E.F. for her much needed language and information gathering skills, and was assigned to be the liaison officer (from the front line at Basrah) with Hogarth's group in Cairo (newly designated as the "Arab Bureau.") Although British support for the Sharif Hussein uprising may have eventually got going without her intervention, "Gerty" did fan embers into a flame. To get fuller and more precise skinny on this, one needs to read more than one or two books on what happened on the Middle East during WW One, subject matter more rich in data available for story mining as the sinking of the Titanic! A big subject not yet as extensively dealt with as have been bios of TEL and GLB would be the natures and adventures of Hogarth, each of his "Intrusives" as his group was called, certain soldiers of the Br. Empire, the Arab leaders that they tried to "help," and the inter-relationships between them, all, before, during, and after the War. Not for the simple minded is it, either, because much spinning, smoke screening and ax grinding has made it seem difficult to get at what actually went on and why. However, going to collections of TEL and GLB documents, letters, etc., and cross comparing stories can be illuminating about all these folks, too! One does get tired of observing humans eternally holding "pissing matches" over who winds up with the most turf and toys for a spell, but as individuals, the ones in this era and locale are more interesting than most ... in my view. Melizbaker 10:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Inheriting Baronetsy Title
Oops ... I appreciate correction regarding GLB not inheriting her father's title, and went too far in interpreting her receipt of a diamond tiara in a package from her step mother in February 1922. Perhaps she had some sort of entitlement just being the eldest offspring of her father and grandfather. As a child of a peer of their rank, she'd probably be entitled to have the preface "Hon. (Honorable)" used before her name, at least. I'd like to hear views of anyone who can shed added light on the topic. According to Wallach book, she wore it, along with her "orders," at her last official function in Baghdad on 25 June, 1926 ... probably just to get in some final fun as "intimidator." Must add a curious note here; it may be of interest to contributors to this page. The Mar/Apr, 2007, AARP mag has an article on Helen Mirren (page 49) which reads as follows: "The mesmerizing thing about Helen is that beneath the totally convincing facade of a perfectly bred English lady of a certain age, there still lurks a coiled animal waiting to spring," says British film director Jon Amiel (Sommersby), who has been courting her for a World War I-era future film project. Hmmmm! Melizbaker 22:13, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Use of acronyms for nobel titles in Wikipedia
I think these English nobility titles (here "CBE") should be spelled out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.2.203.71 (talk) 17:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Discussion of Suicide As Cause of GLB Death
Since GLB was buried on the same day as she was discovered to have died, one wonders how the cause of death had been determined. Was there any story from her maid that she was accustomed to using Dial, or that the pill count in the bottle took a large drop on the night of her death? Dilated pupils would have been an indication of narcotic poisoning, but since this usually happens anyway when you die, what other indication was there that she had overdosed? Hot nights without air conditioning made getting needed rest difficult; sleep inducing aids were just about all there was to help. By July 1926, the heat of Basra and Baghdad for many years (10) had taken their toll on her, not to mention malarial attacks, and possible congestive heart failure (inducing pleurisy and chronic cough) aggravated by stress and years of smoking. While she was home on leave in England in 1925 she consulted doctors about her health. They advised her not to return to Iraq, but the record seems not to show that they found something wrong such as cancer developing. Her letters indicate that she had had a sinking feeling during one of her last ill spells. They also seemed to indicate that she was eating very little at meal times. Her last pictures have her looking anorexic. A bad spell in the Fall of 1924 that really caused her to lose weight led, probably, to her musing that "an ending was approaching." So, on the night of 11 July, even one Dial pill on top of exhaustion from trying to swim in the Tigris (a swift river at times) could have tipped the balance from life to death. However, it would be characteristic of her to end it all "on her own terms." She was not one to have been a burdensome invalid for anyone; nor had she any allies (after the departure of High Commissioner Sir Percy Cox) from her fellow "Intrusives" powerful enough to help her continue to fend off mischief makers and factions wanting to make sweetheart deals for oil exploration rights. A former boss of hers, Arnold T. Wilson, who generally disdained the idea of Arabians properly governing themselves and wanted Iraq administrated more directly by British personnel (as was done in India), had been fended off in the past and had lost out and left government service. At the 1921 Cairo Conference, he attended as a representative of Anglo-Persian Oil (eventually BP), and was continuing to hang around Iraq. Also, she was not appreciated by Baghdad's dealers in antiquities, purloined ones or whatever. She was very diligent in her efforts to make sure as much as possible were intercepted and saved for the Iraq museum. The stress of getting exhibits ready for the June 1926 opening and making sure things did not get "lost" in the process was an added drain on her physical resources. Supposedly she had recently sent a note to her long time associate K. Cornwallis, adviser to the Interior Minister, asking him to look after her pet dog if something happened to her. Was such a note the reason for speculating that she had taken her own life? Sometimes I wonder if K. Cornwallis was as true a friend to Gertrude as he was made out to be ... I think I read somewhere, possibly in "Churchill's Folly" by Christopher Catherwood, that after he left military service, he returned to Iraq, serving there as Britain's ambassador until 1945 ... which would make him seem very amenable to "going along to get along." Finally, she was running out of sufficient income to maintain her household. Dividends from inherited stocks and savings had diminished as supplement to her quarters allowance and pay from her position as Oriental Secretary. The deepening world financial depression and lengthy worker strikes in England were threatening her family's business and financial status. Furthermore, she seemed to be losing zest for writing up reports; perhaps she really objected to reporting things as she was asked to do, especially as Britain had less and less to invest in administering their presence there, not only for security forces, but also for social programs that might help people in it's mandated areas. Finally, not really a robust individual to start with, King Faisal's health seemed to be going downhill; he was in Switzerland getting medical treatments for himself at the time of GLB's death. Were these treatments for cancer? Had she learned that he, too, after all the effort to find a prestigious leader for Iraq, was going to have his time cut short! If so, the prospect was mighty bleak indeed! One wonders what T. E. Lawrence thought when he finally heard how she died. Many were very surprised when T. E. L. did not accompany Faisal to Baghdad and support his transition to becoming Iraq's ruler. Instead T. E. seemed to see no way to live down his own perceived failure to be fully truthful with Faisal while yet having to serve Britain in the war, thereby betraying his own ideals by not keeping a knight's oath to tell the truth, always, though it may mean one's death. Instead, he chose to cut himself off with a symbolic sort of death by bailing out of all politics and public activities (and abandoning support of Faisal to Cox and Bell). Gertrude, however, never flinched from the consequences of backing her choices and decisions with her actions. Melizbaker 17:59, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
The following added, unsigned on April 14th by anon editor. WBardwin 08:10, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
... of course, there is also the nagging possibility something was put into her luncheon to help her along. On more than one occasion she had been thrown from her horse, once when it was startled by the sudden appearance of a cart with jangling bells, another when it was panicked by some unfriendly dogs. Only her remarkable agility spared her serious injury. Also, she seemed to have poor luck in keeping some of her own dogs healthy. Her cousin Sylvia Henley, who accompanied GLB on her trip back to Iraq after the 1925 visit home, was afflicted with one health problem after another and had to be evacuated by air to return to England instead of being able to provide Gertrude with some companionship for a while, as she had hoped to do. Coincidences no doubt, as was the arrival back in Iraq (in 1927) not long after she died ... of oil explorers, absent since before the war. Melizbaker
This is to amend the assertion above that TEL abandoned support of Faisal to Cox and Bell (after the 1921 Cairo Conference): My view, now, is that such a comment is not defensible. I've just finished reading the "Winston's Bridge" chapter of C. Catherwood's "Churchill's Folly," much of which chapter is based on the detailed official biography of Winston C. by M. Gilbert. In early April 1922, while Lawrence had not yet resigned from Churchill's Colonial Office, and King Faisal was negotiating for more powers under the British mandate (to be allowed to have his own separate diplomatic and consular representation of Iraq, etc.) but which the Cabinet were resistant to agreeing to, Winston, setting store on TE's personal influence with the King, proposed to send Col. Lawrence to Baghdad to "make the whole situation plain to the King by oral explanation." In response (ltr of 4 April), the High Commissioner for Iraq refuses to approve his (TEL's) involvement. A reason is cited that is somewhat understandable, but still surprising in respect to who made it (not GLB, who likely was not even aware of the communication). Lawrence soon submits his last request (which was finally accepted) to leave the Colonial Office, still with the offer to serve, if Churchill really thinks he could be of help in the future. In fairness to TEL, many avenues were being closed to him that had anything to do with traveling to anyplace outside of England because of suspicions that he was a spy, or would stir rebellions. In 1923, Robert Graves, troubled by TEL's life in the ranks, esp. the tank corps, tried to "rescue" him by telling him that he (RG) had had an invitation from the "Foreign Minister of a certain Eastern principality" to go there and live at the Government's expense; the invitation including Lawrence. On 18 January, 1923, Lawrence notes that he could get a passport from the India Office (via a comrade from the war serving there), but still rejects Graves' offer with the comment: "I very nearly came, but I wanted it too much for it to be a wholesome wish." Needless to say, Graves did not go by himself. (See "T. E. Lawrence, Letters to His Biographers Robert Graves and Liddell Hart") I wonder if TEL really could have gotten that passport. Eventually, he found himself barred from ALL the archealogical "dig countries," and, in 1929, was even expelled from his overseas assignment with the RAF in Miranshah Fort, India, before the tour was up because of unrest in Afghanistan which, supposedly, had no connection with him. Melizbaker
[edit] Scope of G. L. Bell's Family Connections - One Instance
Strange as it may seem, some bio's on GLB mention that her father's aunt Mary Katherine Bell was the wife of Edward Lyulph Stanley and that one of Lyulph's sisters, Katherine Louisa Stanley, married John Viscount Amberly, eldest son of Earl Russell, and was the mother of Bertrand Russell. But what is seldom mentioned is that another of Lyulph's sisters, Henrietta Blanche Stanley who married Sir David, 7th Earl Airlie, knight, was Clementine Hozier's grandmother. The same Clementine ("Clemmie") who married Winston Churchill. This can be seen on a table in the "Some People Involved In Their Lives" segment at the beginning of the book "Winston & Clementine: The Triumphs & Tragedies of the Churchill's" by Richard Hough. One of Mary Kate and Lyulph's daughters, Sylvia Laura Stanley, accompanied Gertrude back to Baghdad when she returned after her last trip home to England in 1925. Sylvia's husband, Brig. Gen. Anthony M. Henley had just passed away, and the trip was to serve as a diversion, but also may have been a measure to have a frail Gertrude looked after during passage. Sylvia's younger sister, Beatrice Venetia Stanley (Montagu) was a great friend of the Asquith's, and even more extensive acquaintances and relationships can be seen in several books dealing with the letters of Venetia Stanley and Violet Asquith (Bonham Carter) ... If you haven't read some of this stuff, treat yourself! At the time the "Camel Ride at the Pyramids" picture was taken at Cairo in 1921, Gertrude was only 6 years older than Winston, and Clementine, who was 11 years younger than Winston, was but 3 years older than T. E. Lawrence. Finally, a little interesting tidbit (though of minor association with GLB) was something I read, somewhere in these books, that during WW II, Winston wanted to learn more about radar guided ack ack guns, so went to visit one in the London suburbs manned by his daughter Mary (Soames) and Venetia's daughter Judy Montagu, who were members of the Home Defence Force. Melizbaker
[edit] A Depiction of Late 19th Century English Culture Apropos to GLB
To lighten up a little, I'd like to suggest that, for a lively and credible glimpse of a facet of English "society" when GLB was in her late teens, you might like to check out the movie "Topsy Turvy, Gilbert & Sullivan & Much More" (Rated R ... not for kids). It portrays how a slumping Gilbert & Sullivan revived their popularity by coming up with the "Mikado." Even if you've seen it, it may be worth taking another look at if you've been reading any collection of letters or recent bios regarding Gertrude. For only one small example among many relevancies, see if you can catch how Gilbert uses "pish tosh." Somewhere, in one of the bios of her I think, it mentions that she attended the opening night of the Mikado that is depicted in the climax of this work. It received two 1999 Academy Awards (Best Costumes, Best Makeup) and "Best Film" from a couple of other movie award societies. Melizbaker
[edit] In Reviewing New Howell Bio of G. Bell, Was Hitchens Spot-on About Sykes?
Christopher Hitchens reviewed Georgina Howell's recently released biography on Gertrude Bell on pages 119 and ff. of the June, 2007, issue of The Atlantic magazine. In it he mentions the famous complaint Mark Sykes made in a letter to his wife about Gertrude after she had gotten the jump on him as a rival "travel" writer. Hitchens suggests there might have been a "hint of fascination" in his expression of frustration. A picture in G. Bell's photo archives might shed some light as to whether or not Hitchens ... and Sykes ... were right. It can be seen online at "The Gertrude Bell Project" link in this article as photo #105 in Album W in the collection of photographs. Additionally, some interesting photos taken by Bell in 1916 soon after her arrival in Basra are at the beginning of this album and depict the area around her quarters and workplace.
The above was submitted, unsigned, by User:4.124.79.224 21:15, 2 June 2007
