Talk:George Andreas Papandreou

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from User talk:Optim:

How does the Greek media differentiate between the two George Papandreous? Using "junior" and "senior" as we've done? --Jiang 09:26, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

  • There are many ways to distinguish them. One way is the use of the word αείμνηστος (aimnistos) which means unforgettable or ever-memorable, for George Papandreou, senior. Of course only people who support him use this word and surely it is not NPOV! Another way is the middle name. One more way is the careful use of the forms of the name George, one is "Georgios" and the other is "Giorgos". It would be innapropriate to use "Giorgos" for the senior Papandreou. But we use both names for the junior Papandreou. For the junior the word "Νεώτερος" (neoteros) meaning junior may also be used. So we may say "Georgios Papandreou o neoteros". The opposite is Gireoteros (Γηρεότερος) which means senior but not very common. For an encyclopedia it is better to use the full name (first + middle + last name). I don't know the middle name of George senior, unfortunately. I think these pages are maintained mainly by Adam, so let him free to use whatever seems appropriate for him. I also keep an eye on these pages so if I see some mistake I will correct, so do not worry :) Optim 16:35, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I wasn't aware that the two George Papandreous spelled George differently in Greek. How can this be? Surely the name is Georgos since the first syllable is Γε, earth. Adam 00:32, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)
  • The formal and "right" name is Georgios, for both Papandreous. However, in Modern Greek, the people very often say Giorgos to mean Georgios. Just like my name, my name is Nikolaos but usually Nikos is used instead of Nikolaos. Also for Konstantinos, we use Kostas. There are also some cultural usages of the names. For example, if someone is old we may prefer the traditional form of the name (Georgios/Nikolaos/Konstantinos). If someone is young we may prefer the modern form of the name (Giorgos/Nikos/Kostas). So it is possible to differentiate the two Papandreous by using carefully this feature: you can say Georgios for the senior and Giorgos for the junior. Of course this is more or less informal and must not be used in Wikipedia. Also usually we use the traditional form of a name (Georgios) when we want to emphasise the respect we have for someone. It would be innapropriate to use the modern form of a name for someone who is highly respected expect if he/she prefers to be called that way or we talk informally. (however these guidelines are not written in stone, these are based on my culture and my background, so don't get surprised if you see a Greek saying that the form of the name doesn't matter). Also, for Konstantinos Karamanlis the senior it is preferred to use Konstantinos and never Kostas. For Kostas Karamanlis the junior we usually use Kostas. So we differentiate between the two Karamanlis's using their first names: The modern name for the junior and the traditional name for the senior. All modern names are informal, since during birth all Greeks receive only traditional names. For an encyclopedia I think the best way to differentiate is to use the middle name. Optim 00:50, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)

That is very enlightening, efharisto poli. But the policy is that people should be called by their most common names in English, so that both Papandreous have to be called George Papandreou. I think the current method of disambiguating them is as good as any other and I don't see any reason to change it. I agree that the two Caramanlises should be called Constantine and Costas respectively. I think the spelling of Greek names with a "C" is still more common in English than with a "K", though this is changing. Adam 01:32, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)

No it is not needed to change the current naming scheme. For Wikipedia with the current policy it is very fine to have George Papandreou, senior and George Papandreou, junior. I expressed my personal opinion on how an encyclopedia should be categorised, but I have no problem with the current Wikipedia policy. And for the C/K, as far as I know, English people regard K as foreign and they consider C as more English-like, so it is better to use C for now. I have also asked this question on IRC Wikipedia Channel and they told me that C is better usually, so I prefer it. Optim 01:47, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the info Optim.

I did a google search of "George Papandreou" and as far as I checked (up to the 5th page) all the English pages (except for the WP article) referred to the foreign minister. So ,currently (in the English media), "George Papandreou" almost always refers to the younger one, just like how "George Bush" no longer refers to the elder. We should move [George Papandreou, junior] here, leave the senior article where it is (or insert a middle initial) and add a disambiguation on top of here. --Jiang 04:44, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I have no problem with this, and I think it may help so that we will not have to type ",junior" whenever we need to link to Papandreou. Agreed. Optim 04:59, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Done. --Jiang

Contents

[edit] Dynasty

Aquarel, I agree with most of your rvt. Just one point, please explain why you reverted the bit about the Papandreou family as a dynasty. They have been in political power, from father to son, since the 1930s. We have, George Papandreou, Andreas Papandreou, George Papandreou, Andreas Papandreou (the youngest member of the dynasty and entering politics). This is what makes people refer to them either as, George I, Anderas II, George II, and Andreas II, or even Papandreou I, Papandreou II, Papandreou III and Papandreou IV. In America it happens all the time when the same name is transmited from father to son.

In fact when George Papandreou (II) took over the leadership of Pasok, one Greek TV commentator said, 'Here is Georgakis, who has become Georgos and will soon become Georgios'; in English it translates as 'Here is little George, who has become George and will soon become His Majesty George'. Politis 12:41, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Suggestion for merge/modification

There are only two George Papandreou. It's better if redirect this article to junior and have a "see also" for the senior. The latter in Greek is Georgios so most people write Georgios Papandreou for him and not George. -- Magioladitis 12:42, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong article title

Clearly there exists no "George Andreas Papandreou". His name is George Papandreou only. His father's name was Andreas but that is completely irrelevant.--   Avg    01:43, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article becoming a PR job

This article is becoming a publicity page for its subject. References considered unfavourable are being deleted. Politis (talk) 16:52, 5 March 2008 (UTC)