Talk:Geoffrey of Monmouth

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And all of it together is now recognized as a deliberate spoof--one which succeeded in fooling many historians and other writers for centuries.

I'm unaware of any scholar who has said Historia Regum Britanniae was a spoof or hoax. Can you cite some published studies that say this? If they can be furnished, then this sentence can be restored as reporting the POV of some scholars. -- llywrch 00:34, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The spoof thing seems to have crawled back into the article, but once again without the slightest shred of justification. HRB is pretty elaborate for a spoof; however, it fits well into the medieval search for documented connections -- even spurious ones -- between the present and the legendary past. I doubt that HRB is "spoofier" than the Aeneid. I've changed "spoof" to "fiction", which ought to cover just about any interpretation of the material (except for those who think that Geoffrey really was working from a reliable ancient British history!) 68.100.18.183 05:24, 22 January 2006 (UTC)RandomCritic

Two things I'd comment on

1. All learned books of the period were not in Latin. All "English" may be. The world is a larger place and the setence misleads. Even in the British Isles other learned books were in Welsh, outside the UK they were in many languages

2. It might be worth making it clearer that the "Merlin == Myrddin" thing was an invention of Geoffrey and not one that there is evidence for surviving and recorded. (from IP 81.2.110.250)

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John Morris writes in The Age of Arthur that Geoffrey warned aware readers of his time that his work stemmed from Walter Map of Oxford, "who was then well known as a satirist, a wit, and a literary practical joker." Consistent with this, Geoffrey makes numerous statements that historians of the time readily knew to be satirical, such as that Constantius married the daughter of Old King Cole. "It ought not to be necessary to warn," concludes Morris, "that no word or line of Geoffrey can legitimately be considered in the study of any historical problem; but the warning unfortunately remains necessary."

John Morris has apparently confused the "Walter, Archdeacon of Oxford" that Geoffrey of Monmouth referred to with Walter Map -- who was, indeed, archdeacon of Oxford -- but not until 1197, long after Geoffrey was dead. Map is (falsely) cited as a source for Arthurian "histories", but in the Vulgate Cycle of the early 13th century, not in HRB. The linkage between Constantius I Chlorus and Coel Hen, while doubtless an invention of Geoffrey's, is hardly more satirical than other elements in HRB; Coel was not at that time the subject of a nursery rhyme! I have not read Morris, but based on these extracts he seems untrustworthy as a source. (from IP 144.92.184.38)

I've removed the "spoof" thing again, as well as the assertion that the Historia is a work of fiction (it may not be true, but that's not the same thing) and added a bit about his sources. --Nicknack009 21:05, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] John Morris

John Morris's Age of Arthur has been pretty much exploded; I'd like to remove it from "further reading" or annotate it as untrustworthy (a "tangled tissue of fact and fantasy which is both misleading and misguided", D. P. Kirby and J. E. C. Williams, review in Studia Celtica 1975-76). Any objections?

I have added a couple of recent and reputable books to "Further Reading" for balance. - PKM 03:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Oxford University

According to Lewis Thorpe's introduction to "The History of the Kings of Britain," published by Penguin Books in 1966, Monmouth could not have studied at Oxford University because the University did not yet exist. Here's the relevant passage from Thorpe's introduction:

"Over a period of twenty-three years, from 1129 to 1151, he [Monmouth] seems to have been connected closely with events in Oxford. That he twice signed himself magister may imply some teaching function, although the University of Oxford did not yet exist." (p. 13)

I hope this helps! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.253.117.61 (talk) 15:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)