Talk:Generalissimo

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[edit] Merge with Generalissimo

Merge this with Generalissimo? It's always spelled "Generalissimo" in English. --Jiang 08:06, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I agree, Jiang. The only use of this phrase I can recall (other than colloquial) is for Spain...perhaps leave the article here and make Generalissimo a redirect? I don't have strong feelings either way. Jwrosenzweig 08:09, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

The other spelling is linked at Chiang Kai-shek. --Jiang 08:10, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Hopefully this will work; I'm wondering if the histories should be merged though. - Hephaestos 08:14, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] D. Franco

"The D. Franco" -- is that an abbreviation for Dictator ? If so, why abbreviate it ?

Click on the D. :) - Hephaestos 08:52, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Ahhh, I see, thank you. It is Spanglish for "El D. Francisco Franco" right ?


[edit] Castro

I have never seen Fidel Castro referred to as "Generalismo/Generalissimo", can someone provide some evidence ? Hauser 18:38, 2 May 2004 (NZEST)


He isn't. Neither was Pinochet. Removed those examples.

Roadrunner 18:19, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Italian grammar

I think we should get rid of the rather long discussion at the beginning of the article regarding Italian grammar. It doesn't add much to the information and seems a little pedantic. Any thoughts?

Agreed, especially since "General" really was an adjective originally (see the Wikipedia article for "General"). Jbhood 08:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Deleting discussion on Italian grammar now. Jbhood 06:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree to the deletion of the Italian grammar section and it should be noted that "Generalissimus", though nowdays rarely used in the English language is an equal historical term.RicJac 19:40, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Russian translation

"Generalissimus" - "Генералисснмус" is also the exact Russian word for "Generalissimo". I believe it was Aleksandr Zinoviev who labeled Stalin the "Yefreitorissimus" - "Ефрейториссимус" "the Corporalissimo" in one of his books, which I seem to think was "The Yawning Heights" but I could be mistaken. Hi There 21:32, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Severiano Javier Figueira Liste de Juncal

The only reference I could find regarding this individual was this one. As it seems to be nonsensical, I've removed it. This page seems to have been removed from the live Wikipedia, so I'm pretty sure it's just a stupid vanity page thing.

Lankiveil 01:25, 1 October 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Dictator vs. Supreme Commander

This article describes "generalissimi" of at least three distinct kinds: military commanders of exceptional significance, absolute rulers whose claim to legitimacy was/is based principally on their military background, and holders of the literal title "generalissimo", some of whom never commanded an army. I think it's appropriate to comment on all three in this one article but to disambiguate them to the extent possible. I've made an initial attempt. Comments? Michael K. Edwards 03:40, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with the disambiguation you have made. It should be a long-term goal to have each specific Generalissimo/Generalissimus explained and properly sourced in one large section. The historical European/Asian usage of the term is by far more important and encyclopedic than the 20th century usage in banana republics, though this of course must also be explained properly.RicJac 13:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I think it's silly to lump Anthony Ulrich II, who wouldn't have known what to do with an army if he had one, into the same list with Albrecht von Wallenstein and John J. Pershing. It's only marginally less silly to omit Dewey (supreme field commander who happened to get there by way of a naval career) and add Goering (whose climb to power had very little to do with his actual military career and whose title of Reichsmarschall was on par with Stalin's self-award of Generalissimus stature). I went to considerable effort to disambiguate the military and political-posturing senses of the word, and I think you are subtracting value by merging them. But I will leave it to someone else to undo the damage. Michael K. Edwards 01:57, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Different Sections?

Why is there av division between "Famous Generalissimos" and "Supreme Field Commanders"? I'm merging those sections now.RicJac 12:24, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

There is a difference between generalissimo (absolute military ruler of a country) and generalissimo (supreme commander of armies in the field). The text you deleted from the preamble isn't so much an etymology as an explanation of the two English usages. Hence I've reverted your changes. Cheers, Michael K. Edwards 02:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Goering as Reichsmarschall?

I am wondering if Goering should be included in the list of famous generalissimos; having an extraordinary rank, he seems to fit the parameters. Perhaps someone more involved with this article would like to consider it. Oh wait! Reading, not the article, but the Talk Page here, it seems that he WAS included at once point but has been removed. I would think that it belongs. Hi There 18:38, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Considering he was the commander of Luftwaffe as a military leader (Flag Officer9, not just a political puppet who came to power after Hitler's suicide, I would think he would fit the suprememe military type of the Generalissimus.

Hitler, himself, would also fit the 'Banana Republic' Generalissimus mould, considering he was never a general officer before he became the supremem military leader of the Nazi Germany. --TLein 11:29, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stalin

The article intro contains the following statement: Joseph Stalin bore it as a title of rank, Generalissimo of the Soviet Union, above the rank of Marshal of the Soviet Union, after being appointed to the position on June 27, 1945 (at the conclusion of World War II on the Eastern Front). On a semantic note, he didn't really "bear it as a title of rank" it WAS his rank. Nextly, in no meaningful way was he "appointed" to the rank; having absolute power he "appointed himself" or, in other words, "decided to assume the rank". Also, the expression "the conclusion of World War II on the Eastern Front" is very awkward: possibly one could say that "conclusion of the war against the Axis powers in Europe" but even this is not too good. Is there really any reason why it should not read "after the defeat of Nazi Germany"? Hi There 23:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the title was awarded after the defeat of Japan folowing the Societs' rather belated entry into the was in the Far East. I suspect that what is meant by "Eastern Front" i.e. as epxressed relative to the USSR, but therein is further support for changing it as it is not only clunky but aqmbiguous. Dainamo 12:28, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] U.S.A.

The United States should really not be included. I have NEVER heard any U.S. general referred to as Generalissimo. It is simply not used to refer to members of the U.S. military, but is used exclusively for foreign generals in the U.S.

Wasn't Washington posthumously granted a rank superior to General of the Army? --NEMT 18:18, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
He was posthumously granted the rank of General of the Armies. But it wasn't called Generalissimo. - Shaheenjim 22:46, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dates

I think the dates listed here are confusing. When I saw the one for Stalin i thought "... wtf? why is Stalin listed here as Generalissimo from 1879 to 1953. He didn't get power till 1925!" Maybe I'm just retarded but I think the dates listed next to the people should be the dates that they held the title, not their dates of birth and death. The title dates seem more relevant to the context of this article, and if the reader wants to know their DOB and DOD they can click onto the article. Thoughts? -Guest

[edit] German generalissimos

I think it is wrong to speak of the German "Genralfeldmarschalls" as Generalissimos. That title is actualy still a normal title, and if you look at the Wikipedia article "Comparative miliary ranks of World War II", you will se that "Generalfeldmaschall" equals the nato code "OF-10". That makes it the highest recognied "modern" military rank. Therfore the only Third Reich title candidate as Generalissimo is the even higer rank "Reichsmarschall des Großdeutschen Reiches" or Marshal of the greater German empire. This rank was the highest rank in the Third Reich, and was solely held by Hermann Göring. One can even dispute if this title is equal to Generalissimo due to the fact that the equivalent Soviet title "Marshal of the Soviet Union" was a lower rank than Joseph Stalin's title "Generalissimo of the Soviet Union".

This of course leaves the question: Should we apply the term Generalissimo to all ranks NATO code OF-10 or higher? I think not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.217.125.169 (talk) 01:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Life dates vs. "rule" dates

After some of the people cited in the list of Generalissimo, the life dates appear, whilst with others it's the dates for their respective "rule". This appears most notably for Spain, Poland, Russia and several others. I suggest that this is changed to either life dates consistently, or to both, citing "lived: x-y, in position: w-z". George Adam Horváth (talk) 20:06, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Seek explanation of some parenthetical expressions

In the list of persons who have been generalissimos, the names of two are preceded by parenthetical phrases:

Mexico, (even is named) Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna,
Japan, (even) Emperor Showa.

I do not understand what they are for. Have I missed something? PKKloeppel (talk) 15:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC)