Talk:Gautrain/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

POV

Ssteedmans sticky POV tag (again) removed because first two links (To Gautrain Corporate site and Bohlweki EIA site) contain ALL the hard documentary evidence related to the project. Please read this (all 2000 plus pages) before venturing an opinion on the POV neutrality of the postings. Also being closer to the project would help.

4 January 2006: RSA taxpayer

An anonymous IP removed the POV tag - as he or she did not bother to explain themselves here, and as I still believe this to be a one-sided article, I am reinstating it.

POV tag removal should be done after discussing it on the talk page. Links may carry a lot of information - is it neutrally summarised in the wikipedia article ? Wizzy…☎ 11:23, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Point of view check

I’m not well-acquainted with anything about this project apart from the trains it is to use, but this article seems quite heavy on the opposition to it, and rather overconfident in denying public support for it; can anyone more familiar with the situation shed light on the issue? David Arthur 21:07, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


im sure. nothing about the number of jobs it aims to create, or that property values around station precincts will go up. it must have been written by one of the opposition! someone should add that additional information so people can decide for themselves. We all know politicians love blowing hot air to please their constituencies. Greensalad

Well, maybe 75% of public debate in the press and 90% of the comments I've heard personally have been negative, however, as you mention, there are some positives - getting third party support for this information is very difficult. Artagra

I am not well acquainted with the project. I do think that the article has a negative bias. South Africa desperately needs public transportation infrastructure - any - and this is a first step. In JHB you simply cannot get around without a car - black taxis require you to go in to town and out again, and most white South Africans and tourists are wary of taking them. I think that the successful 2010 soccer world cup bid depended on the Gautrain ?? I think a lot of the negativity is from NIMBY - Not In My Back Yard - the people who would be affected, not the people who would benefit. The timescale for 2010 is very tight - any hesitation and it won't make it. Wizzy…☎ 05:54, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree 100% that their is a desperate need for good, clean, public transport in JHB. However, it's this very desperate need for public transport that means we have to be 100% sure the Gautrain is the correct choice. In terms of 2010, it's unlikely the full system will be ready by 2010, and it was infact never a 'set in stone' date - additionally, the system is independant of the soccer world cup - although the Airport-Sandton link would obviously be very useful at that time (While the media linked the initial proposed finish date of 2010 to the world cup bid, it was never a condition of the bid). Personally, while the 2010 world cup will be a big economic event, the Gautrain should be independant of it. I'm not convinced that the people desperately needing public transport are likely to be effectively be served by the Gautrain, due to limited capacity and limited routes. While the Gautrain would most probably operate at full capacity, and while it would most likely operate at a loss that, for a rail system, is deemed acceptable, we have to look at what else could be purchased with the money - ie, the opportunity cost. Spending the same money on a light bus system, reforming the taxi industry, or building a better rail network that service Soweto are all things that come to mind. Of course, there are plenty of arguments for the Gautrain - it will be used by a lot of people, and it may well revitalise the stations along it's routes (to me, the Midrand, Rosebank and CBD stations will in particular be beneficial.) If succesful, it may become a source of national pride. Artagra 10:38, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I think it will be accurate to expand the need for good, safe, reliable public transport to beyond JHB so that we include the whole of Gauteng. Now, in August 2007, we see a lot of preparation work and so forth happening, and the question comes up once more: "Was that the best they could have done with that amount of money?" Having had a look at monorail technology, and taking into consideration that it must be imported into South Africa, my guess is that the Gauteng Provincial Government could have built an interconnected transit network between just about all its suburban areas and their 2010 sites for roughly the same money. Having been part of a corporate environment with a strong focus on eradicating fraud and corruption, I must admit that the "fast-tracking" and short review periods and all that just smells like a rat to me. But perhaps I am just over-sensitive. We have to realize that the transport industry in South Africa is a violent one, especially the transportation sector catering for the middle to low income commuters. The local authorities seem to have very little control over this sector in the sense that eruptions of violence can rarely be dealt with efficiently before they spiral out of control, so the lack of opposition for the comment that the Gautrain was a train for the rich is quite significant. I do not believe that the reforming of a failing industry or the revival of a dying one will have such a huge positive effect on the economy as we might have hoped. We have to align ourselves with practices that have proven themselves elsewhere in the world. After having traveled to some extent, I have to admit that we are not so much different from the rest of the world. i_am_root 07:03, 1 August 2007 (SAST)

NPOV

OK - now we know why there is a perception of lack of neutrality and frequent use of the NPOV tag - heard about the project from a family member in governmnet involved and all that....... and of course there is of course no posibility that a massive public project involves much more than rails, stations and carraiges .... details about these things will not necessarily "balance" the article but yes - ad them - especially the record on price as presented to the public over the last five years. But all is hard to judge though because your family member (and her cronies in provincial governmnet) never engaged in a public debate with taxpayers regarding the project, also probably thinks an EIA is a public consultation process that meets the requirements of section 6(1) of the GTIA..........

5 January 2006 RSA Taxpayer

We are writing an encyclopedia, not trying to win an argument.
It sounds like you know quite a lot about the Gautrain.
  • We have plenty of commentary already about the price. No more on that, unless it is wrong. Not in the article, or on Talk.
  • We have a piece about the EIA - is it correct ?
  • Please add an item about the GTIA (whatever that is) ?
  • Can you add any information regarding JHB public transportation as background to this ?
  • What is the link between 2010 soccer world cup and Gautrain ?

(Also, can people add comments at the bottom, so the discussion can be followed easily ?) Wizzy…☎ 07:36, 5 January 2006 (UTC)