Talk:Gaspar Graziani
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His name sounds like Italian. Was he an Italian ethnic from Croatia? I know there were several Italian cities in Croatia, on the sea-shore and on the islands. bogdan | [[User talk:Bogdangiusca|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 00:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
No, I think his name was rendered into Italian (it's possible that he had no given name in Croatian - since he grew up into Italianized medium, as Croatia's coast was back then). Wether he was an "ethnic" Croat or Italian is a non-sequitur (I really don't think that clear-cut ethnicity can be established for the 1600s), but it would help if I could find out just what city he was born in. Dahn 01:30, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
PS: Also bear in mind that there was no Italy to speak of back then, so we shouldn't invent one in retrospect.Dahn 01:33, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
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- Actually, there was an Italy back then, but only referred to as a region. How do we know he was a Croat? Is there a source for this? --Thus Spake Anittas 07:48, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- Well, if it was a region, which I do not contest, it was not "Italy". All texts I have seen about him say he was a Croat. See for example here. Dahn 08:42, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- Nowhere in that text does it say he was Croatian. Where do you see that? I have only read what your link took me to. Perhaps it says so in the full article, but I'm not about to purchase it. --Thus Spake Anittas 09:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- That is indeed weird, because I was able to read it in the title, and then again in the first lines of the summary... Dahn 19:36, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- Addentum: from what I know, there was a wide Italian identity among the Italian city-states which was preserved. Your misinformation about things that you are not aware of is damaging to this encyclopedia.--Thus Spake Anittas 12:03, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- I am very aware of what I'm talking about Anittas. For all the unlikely precedent of the Guelphs, Italy really became a political idea only after 1700, if not after the French Revolution. Not only is your version engulfed in truthiness, not only is the "damaging to wikipedia" argument strawmanship, but I am wasting my time replying to someone who manifestly cannot pinpoint the difference between what is and what can be imagined. Bye. Dahn 19:36, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- I wasn't talking about the political idea, but about one's self identity. A Venetian was aware that he belonged to the Italian group of people: in both language and ethnicity. You really have no idea of these things. You have spread so much misinformation that it's shameful to even think of it. You should keep writing about your Commies. Recently, you have reverted back to the false facts that I had removed from the article on Moldavia--the very article you have ruined. I have told you of other errors that you have made, but after you corrected them, you continued to behave arrogantly. This time, I will let your error stay and I hope it will stay there long, as a monument to your ignorance and arrogance. And no reason to say "bye." A bye from you is a pipe dream for me. --Thus Spake Anittas 20:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not going to warn you a third time about this kind of messages, Anittas. Trust me, you want to get on everyone's good side, and fast. Dahn 20:09, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- This kind of messages or these kind of messages? All I'm saying is that I believe that you are spreading misinformation. In case a moderator challenges me on that, I will be sure to provide them with my case. I admit that I was being unfriendly to you in my last message and I regret that. The reason for my unfriendly behaviour towards you is that you have been unfriendly to me the whole time, even when I was being friendly to you. However, as a Moldavian, I should have known better and therefore I apologize. --Thus Spake Anittas 20:22, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not going to warn you a third time about this kind of messages, Anittas. Trust me, you want to get on everyone's good side, and fast. Dahn 20:09, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- I wasn't talking about the political idea, but about one's self identity. A Venetian was aware that he belonged to the Italian group of people: in both language and ethnicity. You really have no idea of these things. You have spread so much misinformation that it's shameful to even think of it. You should keep writing about your Commies. Recently, you have reverted back to the false facts that I had removed from the article on Moldavia--the very article you have ruined. I have told you of other errors that you have made, but after you corrected them, you continued to behave arrogantly. This time, I will let your error stay and I hope it will stay there long, as a monument to your ignorance and arrogance. And no reason to say "bye." A bye from you is a pipe dream for me. --Thus Spake Anittas 20:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- I am very aware of what I'm talking about Anittas. For all the unlikely precedent of the Guelphs, Italy really became a political idea only after 1700, if not after the French Revolution. Not only is your version engulfed in truthiness, not only is the "damaging to wikipedia" argument strawmanship, but I am wasting my time replying to someone who manifestly cannot pinpoint the difference between what is and what can be imagined. Bye. Dahn 19:36, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- Nowhere in that text does it say he was Croatian. Where do you see that? I have only read what your link took me to. Perhaps it says so in the full article, but I'm not about to purchase it. --Thus Spake Anittas 09:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- Well, if it was a region, which I do not contest, it was not "Italy". All texts I have seen about him say he was a Croat. See for example here. Dahn 08:42, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
- Actually, there was an Italy back then, but only referred to as a region. How do we know he was a Croat? Is there a source for this? --Thus Spake Anittas 07:48, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
