Talk:Gareth Barry

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Contents 1 In 2001... 2 Requested Photo 3 WikiProject class rating 4 Move from Brighton 5 Last matches at Wembley 6 The Ultimate Peacock? 7 Speculation regarding possible transfer. 8 Reading the sources

[edit] In 2001...

In 2001, Barry was selected to play for Aston Villa against Derby County but refused to play as Aston Villa had refused to pay for his travel expenses when Barry was sent to play for the Villa reserve team away at Newcastle at the last minute. Barry later apologised.[citation needed]

I can't find a citation for this, although I'll admit I'm not the biggest Villa fan. Did it really happen? Gretnagod 02:58, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested Photo

(Everlast1910 19:14, 2 May 2007 (UTC))

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 11:47, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move from Brighton

I seem to recall that there was a bit of bother at the time that Barry moved from Brighton to Villa. Wasn't there a claim against Villa for "poaching"?. Can anyone find a reliable reference? Soccernet [1] says that he was "somewhat controversially plucked from the clutches of Brighton & Hove Albion", but with no further explanation. Daemonic Kangaroo 08:56, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I remember that we paid for Barry and another player and think around 3m compo for the two. And the reason we picked up Barry was he was good mates with the other player who at the time had much more promise than Barry. The other guy never settled and Barry progressed. Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 10:15, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Last matches at Wembley

Does the stuff about Barry and Southgate playing in the final matches at Wembley really belong in the intro? Sure it's significant enough to have in the article but it doesn't belong in the introduction in my opinion.Pegster (talk) 15:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Ultimate Peacock?

Could someone who knows a bit about Gareth Barry but isn't, I would suggest, an Aston Villa fan rewrite this so it doesn't read as though his mother read wrote it? George The Dragon (talk) 17:36, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Why would it matter if his mother has read it?Londo06 17:45, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Apologies, that should have been "wrote" and not "read". As things stand, it is written almost as if he is a candidate for World Player of the Year! George The Dragon (talk) 17:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree and I have started cutting it back. Woody (talk) 17:52, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Speculation regarding possible transfer.

Please do not add rumours or speculation regarding transfer as is not considered fact and has no place in an encyclopedia. Once a formal announcement has been made from the clubs concerned it may be added to Wikipedia. Any other conjecture is considered not notable by consensus and will be promptly removed.--ClubOranje^Talk 04:20, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

It is clear that there is negotiation that has verified on both sides, re-wording is fine but do remove cited material from the likes of the BBC seems silly at best. Alexsanderson83 06:12, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

re consensus - looked through and that was only a nine to six vote, hardly a trouncing. In this instance there is something concrete in terms of quotations from both sides, a lesser 'rumour' I would be inclined to remove as a link, this however involves bidding and a war of words between two managers, and as such has a place in the article. Alexsanderson83 06:18, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

It is still speculation, hasn't actually happened, therefore WP:CRYSTAL. Interest in professional footballers from professional football clubs is core business and not noteworthy. Regardless of how many duplicate citations are applied.--ClubOranje^Talk 12:34, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Cited material states that a bid has been made, you can rework the words, but it does not state a transfer is imminent. I would disagree about the notability issue.Londo06 12:51, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

It would be a bigger deal if a non professional footballer was bid for by a Prem club, yet that does not qualify for notability. For a pro footballer transfer negotiations are nothing more than a job offer / job interview at the end of the day. Thousands of bids are made every year. Some result in transfers, most don't. I don't agree with cluttering wiki articles with non-events as there is already too much smokescreening in cyberspace - I prefer a concise data source with the relevant information. If Barry every becomes truly notable, the fact that LFC made a bid for him one year will be of absolutely no consequence.--ClubOranje^Talk 07:26, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reading the sources

I have read the sources. Have you? The thing is, source 1 is exactly the same as source 2. They are the same article. Same title, same text, same web address. Could you please explain why it needs to be in there twice. Similarly, source 3 is exactly the same as source 4. They are the same article. Same title, same text, same web address. Could you please explain why it needs to be in there twice. The paragraph has little enough notability as it is without repeating citations trying to make it appear important. I have removed them multiple times already, clearly stating why the were removed. Please take the time to click though the links before you reinstate them tomorrow.--ClubOranje^Talk 13:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

The BBC updates stories as they develop, rather than assigning them with individual pages.Londo06 18:34, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Please stop telling people to read the sources, it is extremely patronising, I for one know exactly what is in them, and they do not alter the fact this is a news event still at the he said/she said stage, wikipedia does not document every statement and bid for every player, there is nothing concrete happening, therefore it is not appropriate information for a biography, as you have been told repeatedly. Read the policies I directed you to in the last revert. MickMacNee (talk) 19:30, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Well Mick, I have read those policies quite a few times and you have misinterpreted at least one of them. Notability says "These notability guidelines only pertain to the encyclopedic suitability of topics for articles but do not directly limit the content of articles." (emphasis partly mine). So on that point, you are wrong. In terms of what Wikipedia is not, I know it is not a news service, but this is not news. We are not adding every statement made, we are simply stating that a bid has been made and rejected; that is fact. As it is, the statement is heavily sourced and very relevant. To be scouted by Liverpool is a very big deal for a professional footballer and this is a key point in his career that will be noted if we take a longer-term view of it. Woody (talk) 19:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

So you could name the last ten players to have been bid for but not signed to liverpool? Are they recorded in the Liverpool article? Are they recorded in each players bio? Patent nonsense, pure ephemera and bordering on vanity. And on the liverpool fact, he is already an international, are you seriously suggesting this is massive news for him? Would say C Ronaldo be as excited to be scouted by Liverpool? Again just another way to show the non-notability of the event regarding Barry's entire career, by planting it firmly in the fancruft basket. He has not signed for Liverpool, end of. I can recall several clubs at one point or another bidding for Barry, I don't need to see it recorded in his bio as essential information without which you would be left feeling wanting. The fact is, wikipedia is not a news service, and any attempt to paint this information as anything more than news is just wrong. MickMacNee (talk) 21:13, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

In your opinion that is. I see you have given up quoting WP:EIEIO as no policy supports your cause. Everything is relative to each individual article, given the distinct ill-feeling between Liverpool and Manchester, I doubt you will be seeing any transfer speculation. Put simply, it is not fancruft, it is well-sourced information that is neutral, does not go into excessive detail and is well within the policies of Wikipedia. Woody (talk) 21:27, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not in the habit of repeatedly stating the same policies again and again, I merely assume that others can remember what I said in the last post. Hence why I was distinctly annoyed at you continualy stating 'read the sources' when that wasn't even the issue. Simply, what you've written above is just wrong, in my opinion, and per the policies stated already. I think we're done here anyway, for future reverts just come back here and re-read. MickMacNee (talk) 21:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

No Mick, I am not Londo06, you have never said anything to me except on this talkpage. If you re-add it, that is called edit-warring, something you know perfectly well. With regards to notability, there is no interpretation of policy here, you are simply wrong. With NOT, there is interpretation there, I seem to interpret it differently to you. That is why we need to come to a consensus, not edit-war. Woody (talk) 21:50, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

MickMacNee, I did not intend to patronise you, merely requesting you to read the sources that state that their has between Liverpool and Aston Villa.Londo06 13:05, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Have a look around wikipedia, does it look like each bid for each player is noted in their biography article? This is a ridiculous addition, and simply in terms of wordcount of the club career section is noticeably out of place. Complete fancruft. MickMacNee (talk) 17:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)