Talk:G8/Archive 2

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US President

Is there a reason for the inverted commas in "President" George W Bush? Perhaps because people all over the world refer to him as "President" although he is the president of America only202.79.62.27 10:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

EU and G8

See http://ec.europa.eu/comm/external_relations/g7_g8/intro/

This link is redundant.--Lucy-marie 19:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

"Debate" section?

I think the author in this section is trying to bring attention to certain "globalization" debates, but it is very poorly written and makes virtually no sense to me:

"The debate drives discussions on property rights, global economics, international politics, morality and many other aspects. For example, some defenders believe that patent laws are essential property rights that encourage medical discovery. On the other hand, some critics say that parallel importation is a way out. Some others believe that African poverty is due to the rampant government corruption on that continent while some critics say it is a problem of unfair international trading. Most debate is related to discussions on globalization."

Defenders of what? A way out of what? Does the debate drive discussion of these things or do the discussion of these things drive the debate? And what debate are you talking about? The debate around the G8 table?

I say delete this section or significantly rewrite it.

Democracy and China

Should there perhaps be a clearer indication that a democratic government is a prerequisite for G8 membership?: as China has the 2nd (PPP) or 4th (nominal) greatest GDP in the world, it would seem that this would be the principle impediment to Chinese membership. [[1]]--AlexSuricata 11:07, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

That is not a written requirement so I don't think that's the reason why China is not in G8. Generally thought G8 is a lot less formal and a lot more based on merit than say WTO or UN. Wouldn't you agree? Yongke 17:52, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Snapshot of history

Another criticism is that the G8 is now a "snapshot of history". With countries like Iran, India, Brazil and China excluded, the G8 no longer represents the main economic powers of today's world, as it did when it was created.

I wonder where the one who wrote this got the data from. According to the IMF list of countries ranked by GDP, People's Republic of China (PRC) is the only country in the top-8 that is not member of the G8. According to the World Bank list, it is PRC and Spain. Iran ranks 32nd by GDP, India 12th, and Brazil 10th. I removed Iran, India, and Brazil, because, if GDP should really be used to select countries, there is no controversy here (except for PRC). Gb1291 18:57, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Another criticism revolves around the membership of the G8. With the People's Republic of China and India excluded, the G8 no longer represents the concentration of economic power it did when it was created. India is only 12th in terms of GDP, so it doesn't have its place in a paragraph that uses recent nominal GDP figures to argue that some countries don't have their place in the G8. It should be removed once the page is unprotected. Gb1291 06:58, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Morecambe 2013

Is Morecambe actually hosting the G8 in 2013? Have looked around but can't find anything on it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rutld001 (talk • contribs) 19:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC).

Please source this and put it back. I think this is vandalism.Lizzie Harrison 19:16, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I have added comment about Spain in the criticism section.

I have added that comment because Spain was already the 8th largest economy in the world, larger than Canada, in 2004, according to the World Bank and obviously quite larger that Russia. Now, 2007 must be even larger, then the Spanish economy is growing every year at almost 4%. In per capita income it is about to surpass Italy and even Germany within be next two or three years if the current economic trend continues. Spain has been growing well above the European Union average for 13 years now. In fact it is probable that Spain is accepted in the group in the near future. See the following data from 2005 for the size of the economy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29

For up-dated per capita income see the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union

For the economic situation, job creation and immigration see:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/spain/article/0,,1830838,00.html

The previous data do not account for the "underground" economy in Spain, which is thought to be huge. This fact helps explain that immigrants are increasingly choosing Spain over other European countries and that a lot of immigrants come themselves from countries that are supposed to be richer, like the United Kingdom or Germany, while Spaniards are virtually not emigrating to other European countries, in spite of being able to settle freely in any EU country. Actually it is believed that the real economy is quite larger than the official data. Still, as said, only using official data, it is already the 8th largest, according to the World Bank.

Veritas et Severitas 16:20, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

EU?

EU as a member this dosent seem to tally poperly as it would need renaming the G9 and the EU isnt a specific country.If it ws then France Great Britan Italy and Germany would not have individual representation it would be done through the EU.--Lucy-marie 17:26, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok this comment seems to have been ignored so i will have to assume there is not an answer to the question put. I will now have to remove the EU from the list of countries whihc are members. This because i have recieved no response.I will hold off for a couple of days before i proceed with my edits.--Lucy-marie 15:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

See above, Talk:G8#EU inclusion, and leave well alone. Emeraude 21:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Lucy-marie- the EU may well be represented at some G8 meetings, but is not a member and should not be included as if it is one. Note that many countries and international organisations receive representation at G8 meetings- and they are not included. Astrotrain 00:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
- It is by far not being included as it is one. Its flag is listed at all G8 official pages. We have already discussed this. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 00:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
  - There is no consensus to include the EU in the infobox Astrotrain 00:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
    - Im sorry, as of now, there is. We have had a long discussion above and because you dissent does not mean it does not belong. A copromise has been reached. Re-removing it will constitute edit warring. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 00:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
      - I disagree with the inclusion of the EU in the infobox and the template- what do other people think? Astrotrain 00:56, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
        
        THis has already been discussed. Please feel free to add comments to the above discussion (after reading it). Thank you. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 00:59, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

←The above discussion took a week or more to reach the end of. During the time of discussion, the article was protected. After discussion has ended, the current consensus was to include the EU seperatly based on the G8 website itself. (If you look at all of them, the Eu flag is included, however all verbage seperates the Eu from the rest of the countries). -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 01:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry. All verbage does NOT say the EU is NOT a member. How have you determined that the consensus is what you say it is and what exactly is the consensus you say has been reached? I thought the discussion had got bogged down in deciding whether or not the EU is a member, a partial member, an occasional member or not a member and I don't see that any stated decision has been admitted on this yet. (Despite there being loads of references to it being a member and only one saying it's not - a German Ministry which itself is contradicted by another German site.) Surely we need to establish once and for all that the EU is a member (100%) or it is not, and that negates the whole discussion about the comparative triviality of which flags appear in an infobox! Emeraude 10:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I found sources explicitly stating that the G8 is NOT a member. Several others agreed that the EU is not a 100% member howerver it should be ok to include the flag because the g8 sites do (but in any verbal comments, differentiate the EU from the rest of the others). I am not going to get all the sources again, they are all listed above. face it emeraude the EU IS NOT AN OFFICIAL MEMBER of the G8. The other option is a complete removal of the EU flag and no mention of it. Is that what you want? If you get enough people to argue against the current state, it can be removed with no mention. However you look at it, as far as i know, emeraude you are one of the only people who things the EU is an official member of the G8. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 14:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

As I recall, you found ONE source saying it was not a member (German Government Ministry for Economic Cooperation & Development), and several saying nothing definitive either way and one saying explicitly it WAS a member!!. I found and presented more than ten saying it is, and countless others implying that it is! Against your one! Face it, your argument depends on stretching the meanings of words in the English language (joined, represented, attended). If you want to be pedantic, there are NO OFFICIAL MEMBERS OF THE G8, because there is no official body called the G8 (or G5 or G7). What there is has the EU as an equal of the named countries and every site I have listed has said as much. Emeraude 16:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I am letting you know that I am ending this argument. Several others agree with the way it currently is. You appear to be the only person arguing for full inclusion of the EU in the template. The article itself does not even claim that the EU is a full member as far as I remeber. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 16:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Precisely. I've already said that the article is wrong and this needs sorting as well as the infobox. Emeraude

Economic power

This section includes the statement: "The eight countries making up the G8 represent about 14 percent of the world population, but they account for nearly three-quarters of the world's economic output measured by gross domestic product." (my emphasis). There have been a series of edits and reverts to this figure so that it has bounced back and forth between two-thirds and three-quarters. Yet, the reference cited at the foot of the page [2] includes the ststement "the 8 countries of the G8 account for almost half of the world’s economic output." So: almost half / two-thirds / three-quarters. Which? Emeraude 15:11, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

It's about two-thirds if you measure gross domestic product by nominal exchange rates, and nearly half if you measure by purchasing power parity. The three-quarters figure is clearly vandalism. — Kelw (talk) 04:02, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

So I assume that the figure in the article is using nominal exchange rate based on the IMF figures, which gives 65%. But using market exchange rate doesn't give 'nearly half': with IMF figures, 41%; World Bank, 42%; CIA, 41.6% (in each case figures calculated from the Wikipedia pages you linked). Emeraude 13:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Barack Obama

Why is barack obama listed as being the host of the 38th summit in 2012?

POV ISSUES

The last two edits by Barista cite POV as the reason for deletion of the statements, although without them the sections in question are still blatantly POV. It is debateable whether or not the London bombings occurred explicitly because of British involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the reasons for those nigers poverty are also debateable. The statements, as is, portray the liberal POV, where the additions made which were removed put forth the other side of the coin. Having both statements seems to be the only fair way to discuss the topic and make this article NPOV.

I am in agreement with whoever said that and I hope others will agree. - Stormscape

National politics v Global economics

The continuity of energy supply is likely to be big worry at the G8 in Scotland. Popular angst that the lights will go out, never mind prices rise, is putting heavy pressure on governments worldwide to do something.

What action can be taken? The issue might rise to the top of the agenda of the G8, but what then? Diversification of supply to nuclear is one temporary solution gathering support.

Pressure on national politicians can lead them to explore the traditional boundaries of unenforceable international rules. For example, word from Ecuador is that the new president is thinking about his options for winning popularity - one is to withhold the service of foreign debt and use the money instead for social programmes nationally. Such are the national pressures on politicians.

It is doubtful whether the G8 can solve the conflict of national politics versus global economics.

                          _________

Energy is immensely political. Supplier nations tend to regard oil and gas as strategic assets that should only be distributed to the global market via nationalised companies; it is said that 75% of the world's oil resources are closed to the oil majors.

Perhaps the G8 could at least start to sort this out? The Secretary-General of the OECD thinks so; he writes this month on "The Energy Challenge". See: http://www.oecdobserver.org/news/fullstory.php/aid/1567

French leader

I think President Jacques Chirac will be the main man representing France, not the French PM.

French leader should be chaged to Nicolas Sarkozy

Criticism and demonstrations

"Protestors try to stop members of the G8 from attending the summit during the 27th G8 summit in Genoa, Italy by burning vehicles on the main route to the summit". This caption at the bottom of the picture with Genoa is totally inaccurate and biased. The part of downtown Genoa where the summit took place was "Red Zone" meaning closed to the demonstrators.It was therefore impossible for the demonstrators to try to stop members of the G8. The G8 members and the demonstrators had no contact that day. I think that caption should be removed.It doesn't make any sense.

I agree to that. Also the burning car in the picture is a police car. In the big version you can see that it says carabinieri on the front and on the side. To me it sounds improbable that protestors would burn a police car to blockade a street. There are many things which are more easy to obtain and to set on fire than that. Maybe the caption could be changed to something like "Burning police car in the streets of Genoa, Italy during the 27th G8 summit". 200.88.18.253 22:51, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Why does Japan appear as Pie?

All links that should say Japan say Pie odd

Economic Measurements- PPP vs. nominal GDP

Regardless of its faults, GDP remains the standard form of measurement employed by newspapers worldwide. I think it would be fantastic if a PPP section were included in the article (coupled with a brief explanation of the PPP vis a vi the GDP), but, until there is a sea change in the way journalists and average citizens discuss economics, the GDP should retain its place in the article. --(Ptah, the El Daoud 23:56, 28 May 2007 (UTC))

The GDPs listed are nominal. As we all know, nominal GDP says absolutely nothing and does can not be directly used to measure economic wellbeing between two countries. I propose that we list PPP rather that nomial GDP. Please share your opinion. It seems you are comparing apples and oranges. GDP and PPP measure different aspects of an economy, and we can't absolutely say that one is better than the other. It's true that PPP is a much better indicator of living standard than GDP, but that has no relevance to an organization like the G8. The G8 is not a consumerist association. The G8 was created in the wake of the 1973 oil crisis as an attempt to put together nations that have significant economic power in order to build a platform to influence government policies worldwide. PPP is a measure of relative economic power that is mainly relevant to people who live inside the country. While GDP has admittedly many deficiencies, it aims to be a direct measure of economic output, thus is much more correlated with how much a country can weight on the world scene. In case you are wondering, note that I do not stand behind the G8, and I myself am a citizen of a country that has a low GDP... However, I believe that my dislike of the way countries are selected to be part of the G8 shouldn't make me lose touch with economic realities. Gb1291 02:12, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Why Russia...?

I think that the article should also include why Russia isn't a part of the G-8... It's something that I want to know as well. If Russia isn't considered one of the top 8 industrialized nations, then why is it included in the group?

Russia is a part of the G8. It may have lost its status as a superpower, but the nation never ceased to play a key role in geopolitics (remember:it still possess thousands upon thousands of nuclear weapons). In other words, even in the G8, money is not everything. BTW, while it may not be in the top eight, it has experienced 6 to 7(+) percent annual GDP growth for the last decade. Regardless of its rank, it will not be going anywhere soon. --(Ptah, the El Daoud 00:14, 28 May 2007 (UTC))

Yes, Russia is part of G8, in fact, it hosted G8 conference in St. Petersburg as part of its membership last year. Even by economic measures, being 9th in the world, and rapidly growing, it is a vital member.

You mean why Australia? ;)

UK Prime Minister

The information on this page is outdated soon - it should be Gordon Brown. Just thought I would point it out, Maddox.

When Brown becomes prime minister the infobox will be changed and not before, we had enough of that with Sarkozy. Thanks for the heads up though. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 13:37, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Mnemonics

Many people cannot remember the countries of the G8. This is one mnemonic to help remember them. Other mnemonics to remember the G8 are, in accordance with Wiki philosophy, encouraged. British, Italy, Germany, France, United States, Canada, Japan, and of course Russia. Sjengdahl 15:30, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

China

Is China not allowed into the G8 because they are a Communist state? I'm no expert on economics, but it seems to me that China is becoming one hell of an economic power. PimpyMicPimp 01:40, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

This is not a chatroom. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 05:30, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Please, forgive me in trying to expand my knowlege! I swear, it shall never happen again! I beg of you, look into your heart, master of the Wiki, and find the grace to forgive one as lowly as I! Praise be unto you! PimpyMicPimp 22:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I wonder why China isn't a member of the G-8. It is more powerful (in all ways) then any other G-8 country, except USA... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.225.216 (talk • contribs) 15:13, 6 June 2007 Nick Cooper 16:09, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Mexico

Why is Mexico in the sidebar of the G8 countries?

Recent changes reverted

Will all editors please familiarise themselves with WP:RS and WP:CITE, and also avoid referencing to other Wikipedia articles, you cannot do that it must be referenced to a reliable source. I have no idea what facts in the article are correct or incorrect, but unless sources are provided to support any changes they will be reverted. Thanks. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 07:33, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Expanding on the G8 Article

As a perpetual student, I often read the news, then come here for explanation. I don't fully understand the reasons behind the G8 protests, and I often wonder what the G8 Summit has to do with me. In other words, how does the G8 effect me, an average citizen of the United States? What should I be watching for in terms of my own social concerns? It all seems so far removed from the "common" peoples world, that most feel that the G8 is of little concern to them.

I would like to see the article expanded to how the G8 affects the citizenry of the US and other developed countries. Could one of you very knowledgeable folks do this? Thanks very much!

69.77.146.151 18:06, 9 June 2007 (UTC) Hymnsinger

Presidency

The article states: "The country holding the presidency is responsible for planning and hosting a series of ministerial-level meetings." As a "country" can't hold a presidency, I wonder what this sentence means. A head of state technically embodies the state, and therefore it would be he or she who presides; but, of course, in a number of cases within the G8, the head of government attends and not the head of state. Should the sentences speaking of a G8 presidency not be reworded? --G2bambino 02:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Representation of Third world

Why did someone delete the part that the reason that there is no third world country or 'global south' in the G8 because their economies are not at the level?

Future Summits

Can the future G8 Summit locations be referenced or are they only OR speculation to be removed? Spigot Map 10:46, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I live in Harrisburg, PA and I'm pretty sure that nothing has been announced about us hosting it in 2012.71.173.147.67 02:21, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Categories: Talk archives