Talk:Fumimaro Konoe

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

WikiProject Biography     (Rated B-Class) This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page. Biography Portal B This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ] This article is supported by the Politics and government work group. WikiProject Japan      (Rated B-Class) This article is within the scope of WikiProject Japan, a project to improve all Japan-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other Japan-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale. Japan To-do: edit purge Improve ASIMO Burakumin and Buraku Liberation League Takako Doi Chikamatsu Monzaemon Education in Japan Japanese architecture Japanese art Japanese robotics List of Emperors of Japan (transl. from ja) Emperor Yozei of Japan List of Japanese artists Namioka, Aomori Nihonjinron Sadako Ogata Ōishi Yoshio Okinawa (stub), Ryukyu Islands Politics of Japan Yagyu Shinkage-ryu Center Shiken (大学入試センター試験) More... Review First Sino-Japanese War Hinduism in Japan Inland Sea Kigo Narihira Santosen Temple Sazae-san Stroke order Heizo Takenaka Giovanni Battista Sidotti Requests See Requested articles Listed for deletion See this page, this page, and this page for lists. Grammar corrections Gaijin Takefuji Need images Every prefecture, see Subdivisions of Japan Sendai - Add demographic images More... Translate from Japanese Wikipedia Iemoto (家元) Blue Ribbon Award (Film) (ブルーリボン賞 (映画)) Gesaku (ja:戯作) More... Transliterations missing for Military ranks and insignia of the Japan Self-Defense Forces Wikify Ibaraki University Ikawa, Shizuoka Ima, Ai ni Yukimasu Japanese sculpture Mori Goro Sangaria (soft drink) Shaken Takefuji Vote: Watch this list — Edit this list WikiProject Fascism (Rated Start-Class) This article is part of WikiProject Fascism, an attempt to better organize and unify articles relating to the fascist ideology, its impact on history and present-day organizations closely linked to both of these (ideology and history). See project page, and discussion. This article may be listed on an index of fascist movements or people. Such listing may be controversial; feel free to contribute to discussions there. The presence of this Talk page-only template only implies that the subject is of interest to the associated WikiProject. Military history WikiProject     (Rated B-Class) This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces (general topics): Military biography task force Associated task forces (nations and regions): Japanese military history task force Associated task forces (periods and conflicts): World War II task force

Contents 1 Cleanup 2 About "Prince" 3 WPMILHIST Assessment 4 About war crimes 5 Impressively Unbiased

[edit] Cleanup

I added {{cleanup-date|October 2005}} to this page because large sections of it seem to be poorly translated.--Kewp (t) 08:56, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] About "Prince"

I think he is not "Prince". Konoe family is noble, but only Imperial Family must be called "Prince".14:30, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Not true. All cadet branches of the Imperial family oke had the title of "Prince" as well as certain members of the Kazoku nobility with the rank of koshaku. "Prince Konoe Fumimaro" is perfectly correct. MChew

I agree with MChew, actually this article should be called Prince Konoe Fumimaro. Should we rename it? Gryffindor 20:05, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WPMILHIST Assessment

This article needs some serious wikification. In addition, I am getting a bit tired of seeing the Fascism Project banner on all of these Japanese pages. Were the Japanese truly "fascist" according to the German/Italian model? Or were they simply nationalistic, militaristic, and imperialistic in their own uniquely Japanese way? For that matter, were they nationalistic, militaristic, and imperialistic in a way not all that different from the imperialistic nations of the Age of Imperialism which was only just then coming to an end? LordAmeth 02:27, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It depends upon how you define 'fascism' and wielding such terms irresponsibly has led to historical catastrophes.

There is no doubt there were people who wanted Japan to become a fascist dictatorship like Hitler's Germany or Mussolini's Italy, but they never gained power and each time they tried a coup, they were soundly put down. So I also have serious qualms about using the term 'fascism' to describe pre-1945 Japan.Befuddler (talk) 02:03, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About war crimes

"he came under suspicion of war crimes, in which he faced almost certain conviction and execution by hanging"

One might not understand from the article what war crimes are implied here. I think it should be mentioned which crimes Fumimaro Konoye is responsible for because there isn't a word about it in a present version.

[edit] Impressively Unbiased

For years, based upon my back-ground, I had wanted to believe and even learn to prove that the Japanese were totally responsible for ww2 and all, but the more I studied, especially since the more recent authors' works on more released secrecy act documents, that, as you point out, it was definately not so black and white and clear cut.

So I applaud your article as one of the extremely few unbiased English articles on anything Japanese regarding the era.

I might even ask you to point out even more, say highlight it more, that we knew what Konoe was going to propose(since one of the codes we broke were the diplomatic codes) and we knew that by refusing a face to face 'plea' if you like, what that would do to the moderate cause back in Japan. I think it important to make it more evident that it was we who refused that last chance, not him or his gov't.

I might also point out that, from the start, Konoe only proposed Japan's membership into the Tripartite Pact not only to improve relations with Russia, but also that he was always intending to offer it up in negotiations with the Americans to give it up as a concession to increase chances of peace with us.

I believe it was page 1123 of The Oxford Companion to WWII under the Konoe biography, or maybe it was the Tripartite Pact explanation itself, sorry, can't remember, please check at library or if you have the ww2 encyclopedia...that because of secret agreements requested by the Japanese, the Germans and Italians knew that the Japanese considered it a bargaining chip only from the start, not as anything more concrete.

It is to our shame that all the world who can read English see how hypocritical we were and are. How we're for War Crime Trials as long as our people are immune. And how we even tried those who we knew were trying to prevent war or genocides as if they were Hitler's and Goebbel's themselves.

It does nothing for global respect for us to continue this hypocrisy and lies.

So I am all the more impressed with your article here. It is the least anti-Japanese biased report on history I've seen on wikipedia here. Congrats to you.

I'd say Kudos, but I am still trying to find out for some students where the word 'kudos' or 'cudos' actually comes from or means lol. Anyone? Befuddler (talk) 02:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)