Talk:Friar Tuck
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What is a "Curtal Friar"? Bastie 14:21, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
Well, it's the title of the ballad which features Friar Tuck, although not by name. I've seen a few different meaning of the word. Here's what Stephen Knight and Thomas H. Ohlgren wrote in their notes to the ballad in Robin Hood and Other Outlaw Tales.
" The term curtal has raised discussion. Most feel it refers to a shorter gown, worn for mobility: friars were associated with travel among the ordinary people, which was both a source of corruption and also, as in the Robin Hood tradition, popular acceptability. A "tucked friar" is another way of expressing this, which has become the basis for the friar's usual name, Tuck. Child, however, feels that curtal goes back to curtilarius or "gardener" and that this had been the friar's role (III, 122)."
The story given on this page doesn't make a lot of sense. If he was a friar, what was he doing in a monastery? 84.70.231.152 18:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
- It's not the encyclopedia's place to make the information it reports sensible. Goldfritha 00:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
There are some important errors on this page...the lack of friars in Richards time is not so relevant as the earliest to ballad to name the King (the Gest) names him as "Edward". Edward the first came to the throne in 1272. The earliest known ballad survives in a version dated to approx 1450, the very tag end of the Middle Ages, Reformation on the horizon. So while I don't know when friars came to england I'll bet it was earlier than this. It is in fact unclear when the ballads are set, scholars argue about it, the main viewpoints are the 1300s or the 1200s, but it may be impossible to give them a consistent period. Friar Tuck, while not in the earliest ballads is known to have been already part of the legend at the time of the earliest extant ballads, see Robin Hood article. Robin Hood and the Curtal Friar, while it does not survive in a particularly early copy, is still one of the earlier-seeming RH ballads in the Percy Folio and probably belongs to the older group of RH ballads....it shouldn't be dismissed as a "late" ballad is what I'm saying. Jeremy (talk) 01:42, 22 May 2008 (UTC) Actually I read the page too quickly, it does mention the early mentions in the plays....but still I think leaves the impression that these were later than the extant ballads. In fact the 1475 play comes from around the same time as the earliest known ballad. And the historical outlaw called "Friar Tuck" presumably took his name from the legend, if so he was part of the legend in 1416. It may be that the early ballads that happened to survive just happened to leave him out. Jeremy (talk) 01:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
