Talk:French colonial empire
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[edit] CITATION NEEDED
Please provide citation and dates for French colonial rule in both Tanganyika and Zanzibar (Tanzania). Jkp1187 12:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I have corrected the map: I have added Acadia, East Louisiana, India, and Zanzibar, which had been forgotten. On the other hand, I have deleted Egypt and Fezzan, which were never French colonies or protectorates, but merely briefly occupied by French troops. Hardouin 18:07, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
Might it be a good idea to add Napoleon's conquests to the map? I say this because the anachronistic map for the British Empire
includes German and Italian occupied territories post-WWII, which are even less significant. And especially because, however brief French dominance was, it's my understanding that it was still very influential as far as things like propogating civil law and the metric system go. So as a map of places where French imperial influence has been felt in the world, I think it would be useful. (I'm not well informed enough to know exactly what modifications to make, however.) --Marlow4 11:57, 6 May 2005 (UTC)
- This article is about the French colonial empires, it is not about Napoleon conquests, which have nothing to do with the colonial empires. The map of the British Empire that you are showing is totally absurd, and I already expressed my concerns in the discussion page at British Empire. Territories only temporarily occupied by British troops should not appear on the map, neither should Iran. That discredits a lot the British Empire article. Here at French colonial empires we are most strict, we only include colonies and protectorates, not military occupied territories. About Napoleon, maybe a map showing the extent of French control over Europe could appear in the article Napoleon I, or in the article Napoleonic Wars, or in any article related to Europe and its history. I'll be happy to make that map. Hardouin 00:37, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
- A map showing the extent of Napoleon's conquests would definitely be very interesting, and should probably be best located in a Napoleon-related article. This article, with a reference to the map could be linked from the "French colonial empires" article. olivier 10:47, May 8, 2005 (UTC)
Hardouin, on the British Empire discussion page there was a reply to some of the issues you raised which you haven't responded to as yet.
[edit] Templates
Apparently, two different templates compete in the series of articles. Perhaps just one will suffice? //Big Adamsky 22:03, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
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| French colonial empires I- Former French colonies, protectorates and other possessions: |
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| in Africa & Indian Ocean: Maghreb (Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia) | Arguin Island (off Morocco) | French West Africa (Côte d'Ivoire, Dahomey, French Sudan=Mali, Guinea, Mauritania, Niger, Senegal, Upper Volta) & French Togoland & James Island (The Gambia) | French Equatorial Africa (Chad, Gabon, Middle Congo, Oubangui-Chari) | Djibouti | Comoros (Anjouan) | Madagascar | Mascarene Islands : Ile de France (Mauritus) & Seychelles |
| in the Americas (French colonization of the Americas): New France (Acadia, Louisiana, Québec, Terre Neuve) | Inini | Berbice | Haiti & Saint-Domingue | Tobago | Virgin Islands (part) |
in Asia: Alaouites | Alexandretta-Hatay | Ceylon | French India (Chandernagore, Coromandel Coast | Madras | Malabar, Mahe, Pondichery, Karaikal, Yanaon) | Kwangchowan (lease in China) | French Indochina (Annam, Cochinchina, Cambodia-Kampuchea, Laos, Tonkin) | in Antarctic & Oceania: New Caledonia | New Hebrides (now Vanuatu) | France Antarctique | |
| II- Present overseas territories and possessions |
| French Guiana | French Polynesia | Guadeloupe | Martinique | Mayotte | New Caledonia | La Réunion (Mascarene- formerly Île Bourbon) |
| See also: French colonisation of the Americas | Chartered company |
Shouldn't France Antarctique be in the Americas section? Semi-Lobster
[edit] French Revolution
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It's an aberration to say the French Revolution started in 1793 and finished in the early 19th century. Of course, it started in 1789! I can't believe nobody has corrected it before me, for such an event which its influence had been so important for France one the one hand, but also for the rest of the world.
Pedropunky 11:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Categories
I'd like to create a category covering just the AOF, and one covering just the AEF, as these topics seem scattered around at the moment.
I'm thinking of creating the following sub categories in [Category:Former_colonies_of_France]
1) French Colonialism in Sub-Saharan Africa a) French Colonialism in West Africa b) French Colonialism in Central Africa
2) French Colonialism in Asia a) French Colonialism in Southeast Asia b) French Colonialism in South Asia
3) French Colonialism in North Africa and the Near East 4) French Colonialism in The Pacific 5) French Colonialism in America
Others could be fleshed out, but the selection of articles on Frech Colonialism in West Africa is very spread out at the moment. I keep finding great things, though, that belong here in France, specific African nations, Islam, Colonialism, etc.
Thoughts/adviceT L Miles 16:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I wimped out and just created subcats for French West Africa, French Indochina, etc. It would make more sense if Category:Former_colonies_of_France were called something like Category:Former_France_Empire or Category:French_colonialism. This might serve the same purpose as Category:British_Empire. Any help is much needed... T L Miles 19:34, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Re: Edit of unsuccesful colonisation
User:Godefroy made the following edits: history.
I removed them as they are rather inaccurate and misleading.
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- This must refer to the Sykes-Picot agreement before its final draft.
- Sudan- French imperial pretensions in the area were checked by the successful British campaign led by Herbert Kitchener, 1st Earl Kitchener in 1896.
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- This is already covered by the point on the Africa rivalry and the Fachoda incident. "British campaign" misleads the reader into believing it was actually a war. Also, "imperial pretensions in the area were checked by the successful" could be considered a slightly biased way of expressing things.
- Tangiers — Was an international protectorate, but the administration of the Tangier International Zone was attached to French Morocco.
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- Calling the First Moroccan Crisis and the Agadir Crisis a failed French colonisation attempt of Tangiers is a grossly erroneous misunderstanding of them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Victor falk (talk • contribs).
I don't see what's misleading and inaccurate about them. France had insterest in the oil fields of northern Iraq and Palestine, but didn't manage to get them at the end of WWI due to British opposition. In Tangiers the international protectorate was a way for the British to avoid having the French control one side of the strategic Strait of Gibraltar. Godefroy 13:50, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
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- As someone has said, calling the First Moroccan Crisis and the Agadir Crisis failed colonisation attempt is a complete reversal of what historians usually consider it to be. See Agadir Crisis:
The German move was aimed at reinforcing claims for compensation for acceptance of effective French control of the North African kingdom, where France's pre-eminence had been upheld by the 1906 Algeciras Conference following the Tangier Crisis (or First Moroccan Crisis) 5 years ealier. Franco-German negotiations initiated on July 9 in 1911 at Treaty of Fez, led to the conclusion (November 4) of a convention under which Germany accepted France's position in Morocco in return for territory in the French Equatorial African colony of Middle Congo (now the Republic of the Congo). This 275 000 km² territory, known as Neukamerun, became part of the German colony of Kamerun and part of German West Africa, which only lasted briefly until they were captured by the allies in World War I. The area is partly marsh land where Sleeping sickness was widespread, although it did give Germany an outlet on the Congo River. Also as part of the treaty, Germany ceded France a small area of territory to the south-east of Fort Lamy, now part of Chad, as shown on this map. France subsequently established a full protectorate over Morocco (March 30, 1912), ending what remained of the country's formal independence.
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- This is pretty clear... except if you consider that the fact that Germany accepted France's position and that a French protectorate is a "failed colonisation attempt"... Tazmaniacs 00:16, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Medieval French Empire
I removed this whole paragraph. This is original research at its finest. I'm not denying the facts of the Crusades or the truth of the statements, the issue is the appearance in this article as though this has something to do with French colonialism. It hasn't. A Google search sans Wikipedia results on the term "Medieval French empire" [1] reveals nineteen hits. Count them - nineteen! The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 21:08, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] the Fashoda incident
People are regularly deleting this from "Unsuccesful colonisations" and I have to revert that as regularly. I think I can hardly be accused of anti-French sentiments... So I wonder why people think it shouldn't be here.--victor falk 12:02, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
- The "unsuccessful colonisations" section is ridiculous. What is the definition of "unsuccessful"? Was New France a successful or unsuccessful colonisation? Louisiana? Why was French India an unsuccessful colonisation when French India outlasted British India? Was French Indochina or Algeria successful given that the French got booted out? What about St Lucia or Malta? The article should concentrate on what was the French colonial empire, not what wasn't. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 23:49, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
- Oh, dear, then you don't want to look at how it looked back in the summer... It was called "Territories where French colonisation was checked". With words like "thwarted", "trounced", "French imperial pretensions", and Napoleon "only managed to lose all opportunity for the plans' success at the naval Battle of the Nile" liberally employed. I think you're quite right about what you're saying, they should be merged into the appropriate sections.--victor falk 01:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Zanzibar
France never ruled Zanzibar like it shows on the map. Signsolid (talk) 00:43, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Second Map is quite wrong
The second map in the article (Image:French Empires.png) is quite wrong, since it includes Spain and Portugal (and probably others) as part of the French Empire. Portugal and Spain were never part of any French Empire! They were countries briefly and non-completely occupied by Napoleonic forces in the begining of the 19th century. Being partially occupied is not the some as being part of an Empire. Both Spain and Portugal never stoped being independent and were never considered, even by France as a part of France or a colony! I'm removing this map. The Ogre (talk) 23:16, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
- I agree. There seems to be a school of thought at these empire articles that military occupation equals colonial empire. For a while, the British Empire map had the British occupation zones of Germany and Austria coloured in. Ridiculous! The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 23:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
