Talk:French Community of Belgium
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The new name that French-speakers and sympathisers give to their community creates a lot of confusion. They pretend it is just as legal, and should be accepted as 'Flanders': "likewise there is no mention at all of "Flanders" as a region and community in the Belgian constitution - something which also creates confusion about the differences between regional and community institutions". However, this is not relevant: the name 'Flanders' is widely used in officil belgian legislation (ordinary legismlation) and other Belgian documents. Moreobver, it is the only linguistically possible and correct name as the current Flemish institutions are not regional institutions, nor community institutions, nut merged institutions. Therefore, they do'nt refer just to the region, nor to the community, but to the whole, and what other logoical name can be found for the whole then 'Flanders'. And, contrary to 'Flanders', the new name 'Communauté Wallonie-Bruxelles' is not used in any official belgian publication.--Rudi Dierick 14:23, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Thanks for your remark. Since I still think it is relevant in this context to indicate, as a comparison, that the term Flanders is likewise not mentionned in the Belgian Constitution, I reworded the paragraph.
- Two remarks:
- 1. Is it correct and most suitable to include these non-official terminology and discussions around it in an encyclopedia? Is this not to political and partisan, and to far removed from official and scientifically relevant and correct information? --Rudi Dierick 18:15, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- 2. In case this inacciurate, coinfusiuon and unofficial name should be included, and in case some background information is to be added (as you did), then one cannot put that name on the same level as the name 'Flanders' in itself only referes to he Flemings and their nation and institutions, and thus not creates any political implications, nor any legitimate conflict with the French-speakers (as does the name 'Communauté Wallonie-Bruxelles'). Therefore, i reworked this paragraphu, keeping the fact that the name sometimes is confusing as it refers both to the Flemish region, to the Flemish community, as tyo the actual Flemish institutions (parliament, ..) and to their political parties. --Rudi Dierick 18:15, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Otherwise, you wrote the expression "Communauté Wallonie-Bruxelles" is "(...) contested by the Flemings as it creates confusion about the differences between regional and community institutions". It would be interesting I think to add your sources. Thanks in advance for your helpful contribution. --Edcolins 21:13, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)
- In order to find the most official references, i should do some background checking (more then ksut refeerring to press articles); i'll have a word on this with somebody working in the Flemish administration. As far as I reember, there is even an official complaint lodged by the Flemish government against that name.--Rudi Dierick 18:15, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- You'll certainly note the huge political difference between '"Communauté française Wallonie-Bruxelles" and "Communauté Wallonie-Bruxelles". It think the former is both much more precise, less contary to the spirit of the belgian institutions and its constitution, and less aggressive towards the Flemings. the former appears to me also linguistically more appropriate. --Rudi Dierick 18:15, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[edit] at is the 'Communauté (française) Wallonie-Bruxelles'?
Apparently, it is extremely confusion what this names refers to.
Ed Collins tought it refers "to institutions of the French Community of Belgium or more broadly to institutions which are common to the French Community of Belgium, the Walloon Region and the Commission communautaire française (COCOF, an French-speaking institution of the Brussels-capital Region). I tought that it referred only to the French-Speaking Community of belgium, and NOT to any regional authority, nor Walloon, nor Brussels.
The source given by Ed Collins appears not to refer to the 'Communauté (française) Wallonie-Bruxelles', but to 'WBRI', being a working cooperation between:
-
- French-speaking Community of Belgium
- COCOF
- Walloon Region
This suggests to me that the name of 'Communauté (française) Wallonie-Bruxelles' got confuised with 'Wallonie-Bruxelles Relations Internationales' WBRI, where the latter (WBRI) NOT with the Brussels regional authorities. A furterh confused might have arisen in the description of the cOCOF. According the law, the COCOF is basically the internal executive level for the brussels regional area assuming most competencies of the Community level for the Frech-speakers, whereas its (long) name 'Commission communautaire française de la Région de Bruxelles-Capitale' might suggest tha it has certain competencies that were defined in the constitution as regional.
Conclusion: 'Communauté (française) Wallonie-Bruxelles' refers only to the French-speaking Community of Belgium. Checking the webstite of the 'Communauté (française) Wallonie-Bruxelles' and especially the comptencies listed overthere confirms this.
[edit] 'Comm. Française Wallonie-Bruxelles' versus 'Comm. Wallonie-Bruxelles'
Starting point of this short analysis is that the current institution of the 'Communauté Française de belgoque' naming itself now more and more with teh 2 other inconstituional names has today ONLY legal compeencies in the area of the communties (and none at all in the area of the regional competencies). So far the objective facts.
Seen from a scientific and communication point of view, out of the 2 new names, 'Comm. Française Wallonie-Bruxelles' might be better: it designates clearly which legal competencies and what demographic and political group of persons is implicated, being the French-speaking citizens in Brussels and Wallonia. Even better would have been 'Communauté Francophone Wallonie-Bruxelles'. Those names also avoid any confusion between the the nature of the legal competencies involved, nor about what public is covered.
From a political point of view, the first name thus avoids any conflict between regional versus community institutions, and also between the two main communities. For the latter, there is an official complaint from the Flemish governement against the use of 'Comm. Wallonie-Bruxelles'.
Sociologically, anoher observation can be made: the relative public use of all those terms reerring to the french-speaking community in belgium (the "Communauté française de belgique", the "Communauté française Wallonie-Bruxelles" and the "Communauté Wallonie-Bruxelles" can easily be estimated by doing a Google check. The results are clear (status 15 dec 2004):
- "Communauté française de belgique" : 104.000 hits
- "Communauté française Wallonie-Bruxelles": 15.100 hits
- "Communauté Wallonie-Bruxelles": 12.100 hits
In short: given all these considerations, I think Wikipedia should stick with actual, neutral and objective truth, being '"Communauté française de belgique', and explain what this community is about, its media, its culture, universities, its political parties and institutions, ... and then refer all political projects for how some French-speakers would like to change things towards an article on the Walloon movement, or on detail articles on politics of the French-speaking community.
[edit] Population?
What is the population of the French Community of Belgium? That would be a helpful bit of information to include.
