Talk:Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel

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Contents

[edit] Naming

According to Noel McFerran, Google Books overwhelmingly gives the Landgrave's title as Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel. At any rate, either Cassel or Kassel needs to be appended to the end of his name as he did not rule all of Hesse, just Hesse-Cassel as Hesse-Darmstadt was a landgraviate as well. This also raises questions (for me at least) regarding the use of "Kassel" for other Hessian rulers and princes as "Hesse-Cassel" seems to be a more common form than "Hesse-Kassel", even if Kassel/Cassel alone differs. One must remember though: Hesse-Cassel/Kassel ≠ Cassel/Kassel. Charles 21:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Noel has failed to follow up on this page, so I am nominating it for a move. Charles 00:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. -GTBacchus(talk) 01:23, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse → Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel or Frederick II, Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel — Frederick II was landgrave of the Cassel/Kassel division of Hesse, not of Hesse in its entirety. During his reign, there was a separate landgraviate of Hesse-Darmstadt. Both Hesses together made Hesse. I prefer the form Cassel as it was the form used in the titles, also noting that: Hesse-Cassel/Kassel ≠ Cassel/Kassel, meaning the city and its name is not the same thing as the landgraviate and its name. —Charles 00:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
  • Support move to Hesse-Cassel, as it seems to be the most common name and was the form used in the titles in English. Hesse-Cassel is not the same as Cassel/Kassel only and cannot be compared directly to it for naming. Charles 00:29, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Support at least a move to "of Hesse-Cassel" or "of Hesse-Kassel". Olessi 15:54, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
  • Support per User talk:Charles#Hesse-Cassel. — Sebastian 01:23, 13 November 2007 (UTC)    (I am not watching this page, but I am open to changing or amending this vote or statement. If you feel facts changed sufficiently after I posted this, please let me know.)

[edit] Discussion

More often then not, seems that Kassel is used instead of Cassel, ie Louise of Hesse-Kassel or Marie Sophie of Hesse-Kassel and Kassel itself —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.196.130 (talk)

Please read the commentary on the talk page. One, the city of Cassel is not the same thing as the Landgraviate of Hesse-Cassel. Two, names are not consistent across Wikipedia, if they were I would not have put a choice. Three, Noel McFerran has noted that the form "Cassel" is used more for this landgrave. Also, please sign your posts with four tildes (that being this: ~~~~). Charles 08:39, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I had initiated an unsuccessful RM of Hesse-Kassel to Hesse-Cassel before. Concerning the phrase "Landgrave of Hesse-Foo" in publications since 1950, Google Books indicates that "Hesse-Cassel" is used more frequently than "Hesse-Kassel". Olessi 15:54, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

That is indeed the form which should be used then. Charles 17:21, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the article should be standardized with the other articles in Category:House of Hesse-Kassel. A WP-wide move to Hesse-Cassel could then be reconsidered. Olessi 22:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the individual merits ought to be considered, really. That is the best way to effect a proper change of the names of other articles. As Noel McFerran, a librarian, pointed out, most works refer to this name as Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel, not Hesse-Kassel. I think that we should go on that, which is solidly supported, and use it as just cause to initiate other moves. Charles 22:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.