Talk:Frank Luntz

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[edit] The Luntz Experience

I was a recent particpant in a presidential debate focus group run by Luntz and I can tell you with all honesty that it was totally manipulated and a fraud. It served no purpose whatsoever in judging the candidates because only the ones who said what Frank liked were promoted while people like me were censored. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.138.56 (talk) 20:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I was also a participant at one of his focus group sessions about eleven-twelve years ago in Delaware when the guy was a nobody. I could not believe what crap it was. It was like Jerry Springer-lite. The topic was education reform and while I actually agreed with his point politically, it was really clear he had no interest in an objective survey. Oxford gave this guy a doctorate? Gave Rachel Maddow one too? What the hell anyways..? --Drunkencorgimaster (talk) 23:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, I knew Frank at Oxford, and to be honest we were all a bit surprised that they DID give him his doctorate. He never seemed to actually do any work, spending most of his time politicking...but somehow he actually managed to submit a thesis (apparently entirely researched and written during a visit to the US) and get a degree. Someone should maybe get a look at his thesis in the Bodleian Library -- perhaps the title and subject should be included in the article? Also, it may be worth including that he was at Trinity College. There is a page listing notable (ie wiki-included) people who attended Oxford U, but Luntz isn't on it, and I couldn't figure out how to edit the page to include the cross-reference. --Veryfluffy (talk) 12:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow. Your comments are very interesting to say the least. For the record, I actually kinda like Maddow, she just does not strike me as the oxbridge type. But hey, that's my fault for stereotyping. --Drunkencorgimaster (talk) 01:57, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 1

We have a problem.How do we get to the facts? The best measure of Doctor Luntz is his own words. The archives of Frontline and Now contain interviews with the good doctor. In my research I made a strange discovery. My desk was covered with the transcript of an interview with Joseph Goebbels. When I opened Doctor Luntz's interview I could no longer tell who was speaking without looking at the top of the page. I'm serious, do it some time. You cannot tell the difference. Ron Giles

  • The guy might be a loser, but to compare him to a Nazi is a little harsh..actually, the way he distorts polls and creates propaganda, OK, Nazi works with me....

People please stop ruining wiki for the rest of us. If you want to rant do to it with your friends i was hoping to get some info from this page, but now I really cant thanks a whole bunch The Isiah 18:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Umm... huh?? @_@ The reason you can't get any info from this page is because it was discovered to have been plagiarized and was therefore removed from Wikipedia. The only appropriate topics of conversation are on how to construct a new article from scratch without repeating old mistakes. -Kasreyn 09:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The first part of this article is from the Luntz.com bio of Dr. Luntz. The second part is just copied from SourceWatch. Is there anything novel to this that people can add?

Well, I could add how he's the foremost marketer and spin-doctor in the Republican effort to reframe American political debate... but since that's a highly controversial and partisan issue, I'm not sure how best to state it without starting a revert war. Wikipedia is already too politicized, I don't want to make it worse. He has been highly influential in national politics in recent years, though, and certainly is more than just a garden variety pollster. He was allegedly involved in writing the language of the so-called "Contract with America" of Gingrich fame. He was reprimanded by the American Association for Public Opinion Research in 1997 for polling work he did. (I can provide a cite for that, btw, if needed). He is less famous for lengthy notes (often over 100 pages) which are disseminated to campaigning Republicans on recommended verbiage and rhetoric to employ for best political effect. Luntz is certainly not solely responsible for recent Republican gains, but he does deserve some of the credit. What information is conveyed in a candidate's speech is often not as important as what words are used to convey it. Connotation and word association play a large role in how people emotionally react to what they hear. It's a field that Republicans are light-years ahead of Democrats in. -Kasreyn 08:42, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


I was too hasty in making my last revert, and wrote "rv copyvio again", assuming that the anonymous user had again inserted the copied Luntz bio. Instead, s/he had inserted an irrelevant discussion of gays in the military. Neither is appropriate for the article. RadicalSubversiv E 06:09, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

This article seems to present a very positive image of Frank Luntz. I go to a fairly liberal school, and have heard more bad than good about the man. Also, it seems that in the past people have attempted to add information about some of the darker aspects of the man, and all that remains is a single sentence at the very bottom of the article, practically mentioning off-hand that this stellar individual was accused by the AAPOR for violating standards of ethics. I'll admit, i don't know too much about frank luntz, but I feel asthough the presentation I'm being given is fairly biased. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if he had a hand in editing his article. 134.173.121.223 02:04, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: girlfriend claim and "unbelievable"

It appears that many would-be editors of this article feel strongly that Luntz's defense was "unbelievable". Please note that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a personal soapbox. We are not here to report on what we think. If you can find a link from back then, of someone from Penn saying quote "We couldn't believe what Frank said" or the like, then we can include the claim. Otherwise the claim violates Wikipedia's No Original Research policy, not to mention failing to present a Neutral Point of View and I must continue to remove it. Ask any admin, I'm certain they'll agree with me.

Do I personally find Luntz's claim "unbelievable"? Yes. But so what?! - I wasn't there, and furthermore this encyclopedia isn't about my personal opinion, or yours. Respectfully, Kasreyn 17:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

No problem, I removed the girlfriend reference. I was at Penn and had personal dealings with Frank and assure you the guy DIDN'T have a girlfriend even though he used this as his excuse for violating UA campaign practices at the time.

Fine by me. The excuse was unsourced anyway and would probably eventually have been culled as Original Research. -Kasreyn 04:53, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scumbag since his days at Penn

This guy has been a scumbag since his days at Penn. The guy "rigged" the results of a 1984 freshman UA vote, counting the votes behind closed doors BY HIMSELF and he hasn't looked back since, doing the same with his "polling". He should be taken out and shot, IMHO. TH 3/23/06

Are you for real? You know this is Wikipedia and not a forum, right? JettaMann 02:01, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No evidence here

Rather than remove, requesting verifcation of the assertions made above in "Scumbag" post

Mattjans 21:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)mattjans

[edit] Article got nuked

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/delete&page=Frank_Luntz

I guess we'll try again?? It must be nice to be a NEW admin....Tom 17:56, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Why was this WHOLE PAGE NUKED?! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.252.82.127 (talk • contribs) .

In reply to both 71.252.82.127 and Threeafterthree, the article was deleted because it had extensive copyrighted material; it was plagiarized. Wikipedia is very forgiving of many faults, but there is absolutely no tolerance or leeway allowed for copyright violations. The WikiMedia Foundation is not rich and cannot afford to be sued and forced to pay damages. Kasreyn 01:11, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please do not rv useful edits

Please stop reverting my edits. They are sourced now. The page is a description of a TV program, which is why you see nothing on the page. You'll have to get off the internet to see his interview, at 3 minutes 50 seconds in from the beginning (among other places). Please stop reverting, threeafterthree, or this page will always be a stub. Thank you. Brianski 21:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On NPR 01/09/06

Maybe someone should review this broadcast and edit the phrase "When offered the chance to redefine "Orwellian," Luntz, flummoxed, is unable to provide an answer." In the interview, he redefines "Orwellian" as the opposite of the meaning to which it is generally understood, i.e. that it means clearly and unsubjectively written, such as the style of writing promoted by Orwell himself.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.80.81.193 (talk • contribs) 22:37, 9 January 2007

You read my mind. I put a sentence in the paragraph, quoting Luntz. For FWIW, the exchange begins at about 4:45 or 5:00 into the interview.--HughGRex 01:37, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, there are some really good quotes from that program. Terry Gross was so polite and Luntz was hypocrital -he contradicted himself more than once and Gross' questions and demeaner helped reveal what an idiot this guy really is. I was led to believe during the interview that Luntz himself realized what a fool he is, and I couldn't help but feel sorry for him. -Teetotaler —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.68.22.207 (talk) 09:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC).
About the hypocrisy, self-contradictory stuff on NPR, I listened to the broadcast, and while I'm personally pretty far left and I don't like this guy for what he stands for, I don't like the "weasel-worded" paragraph on "He goes on to contradict himself, etc." First, I don't think the contradiction is spelled out in a concise, convincing way, and second, such a statement looks to me like original research—a wikipedian connected the dots to find the hypocrisy, and we're not really supposed to be doing that. If we can't have a sharp, concise quote from Gross or someone out in the media supporting an opposing view we ought to strike a lot of the paragraph. Further, to me the contradiction is not that he's not being clear, but that if he applied the same process from "exploration" to "Orwellian," there's no chance he'd be able to redefine "Orwellian" apart from newspeak. Anyway . . . Dvmlny 10:40, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Luntz normally conducts research polls to reframe politically loaded words or to change their loading. It literally takes months of research to do this for just a few words. But to accuse Luntz of not being able to reframe "Orwellian" on a TV show during an interview is clearly intended to defame him. The man may not be a slick, polished, quick on his feet interview subject, but he does have a talent for finding catch phrases that influence how people receive a message. Although I don't agree with the political leaning of his current customers, I've learned quite a bit from reading his books. Let's steer the article towards his skills/talents and away from a meaningless flummox moment during some interview. That whole section needs to be deleted.Kgrr 15:24, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV Nomination

I've nominated the "Use of language" for a POV check. The rest of the article seems pretty fact-based and neutral, the 1st and 2nd paragraphs of this section are ok. But the 3rd paragraph (added after 05:50, January 10, 2007 by HughGRex) presents a problem. Its first sentence reads:

However, within a few minutes he contradicts himself when discussing "energy exploration" (oil drilling).

I'd like to emphasize that I was not the editor who added the POV-OR phrasing quoted above. It was added by anon 63.197.255.72 in this edit. (Mobius's phrasing is ambiguous and could be read as naming me as the editor who added that phrase.)--HughGRex 23:41, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

That and extended exchange with NPR host are, to me, unnecessary. — Mobius 08:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

agreeKgrr 15:25, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Second the Nomination

Agreed that this should be reviewed for POV. Examples of anti-Luntz leaning language include...

"On C-SPAN's "Afterwords" program on January 29, 2007, Luntz again attempted to illustrate the value of his "deep sea energy exploration" euphemism saying..." 'Attempt' should be removed. One defends or not...attempt assumes that he didn't. Whether it was convincing is a point of view.

"However, within a few minutes he contradicts himself when discussing "energy exploration" (oil drilling). His research on the matter involved showing people a picture of current oil drilling and asking if in the picture it "looks like exploration or drilling." " This sounds like clarification, not contradiction of self. What's the metric for contradiction? POV

Many references to his conservative attachments which taken as a whole go beyond simple description, particularly since any analysis of his book or other research work are not listed.

No listing of his research company http://www.luntz.com/ or any non-political work he does.

Mattjans 21:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)mattjans

The article needs a quite a bit of balance. The pollster and communications professional's article has become a coatrack for his current involvement with the Republican party. The article should be about the man and his talents with polling people and using the results of the polls to alter language so that people receive the message. Note for example how the section about his yearly briefing book is placed before his main talent - use of language. But that section seems to be mostly about criticizing his re-frame of oil drilling -> energy exploration and not having his facts straight. I'm not sure that entire sections should be required to discuss each re-frame.
The article does not mention that his company will work with any number of clients as evidenced by several interviews of Frank Luntz (Bill Maher with Huffington and Poundstone) and (Frontline PBS) that I've seen and having read his book "Words that Work". Although he does a lot of work re-framing political arguments for the Republicans, he's quite willing to sell his services to either side willing to pay for his services. The copyright violated versions of the shows have been posted on YouTube.
It may be very difficult to get a client list since many companies want to keep their PR and marketing campaigns as part of their "secret sauce". A quick search of the Internet shows that Luntz seems to have at leaast two dozen fortune 500 companies as clients. These are possibly communications, health care and energy companies. Just researching the man instead of hanging his laundry up on a coatrack will tell you these things.Kgrr 15:04, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Original Research

Echoing previous comments - 4th and 5th paragraphs in "Use of language" section make unsourced/verified assertions. In particular the 5th which quotes something from MMS (whatever that is). Pending some discussion on this topic I plan on removing the offending language. — Mobius 08:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I have marked many of the places with {{fact}} tags. Rather than finding sources for the material, the unsubstantiated claims should probably just be deleted to stop the article from becoming more of a coatrack.Kgrr 15:08, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Global Warming

This Luntz guy is a cunt. What is written in this entry portrays a man who had the tools available (through his unique position as a an adviser and political strategist) to deceive voters and discredit the established research of hundreds of career scientists around the world. Now, he was not alone since the media swallowed his propaganda hook, line and sinker and ignored the hundreds of scientists around the world. His words about believing in it now and "at the time" with the available data he made the right decision is ludicrous. Don't let him get away with it. He is a master of lying to people and will trick anyone of you again. Don't be fooled into defending him on NPOV grounds. An analysis of his words and actions at the time, along with his motive and intent to deceive the public are on the record. Still, if the average American is so apathetic or ignorant as to vote and be swayed by this lying, then what can be done if they breed like rabbits?-ZERO00

I know Frank from Penn. The stories I could tell you about him then would blow you away. He is on Hannity/Combs tonight, can't wait. --Tom 13:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia talk pages are for discussion of the article itself, not for general discussion of the subject of the article. If you love the guy or hate him, go start a blog. But please don't ruin Wikipedia for everyone else. --JHP 22:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
"ruin Wikipedia for everyone else"? Give me a break, what a load of crap, please! --Tom 12:32, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I used poor wording. Looking back, I can't believe I actually said "ruin Wikipedia for everyone else". My point is, whether one thinks Frank Luntz is a "cunt" or not really doesn't belong on Wikipedia talk pages. --JHP 15:40, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Hey JHP, NO problem! Sorry I said "what a load of crap". You are RIGHT that the talk page should really not get off into discussing the subject of a bio personally, but should stick to the FACTS at hand. Just because I knew Frank from my Penn days means zippo. Anyways, water WAY under the bridge at this point :) Cheers! --Tom 16:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Luntz Memo

I noticed that while there is an external link to the "Luntz Memo" on the main page, it's not mentioned at all in the article. That's a little odd -- a came across a mention of the memo in this Globe and Mail article, which referred to it as the "now-infamous 2003 memo." It's essentially a guide for how Republicans should phrase environmental discussions, especially when it involved global warming. I have little interest in this Luntz wiki, but I thought I ought to point this out. FYI. -BC aka Callmebc 15:28, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Summer cleaning

I removed alot of the family unsourced material. Birthdates for parents is not needed. Also, if father is as notable as mentioned, mayne he should have his own article(no I do not want to write it, thank you very much)? --Tom 17:41, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hey Look Here

This is my first attempt to contribute so bear with me.

Diane Rehms interviewed Mr. Luntz on WAMU. WAMU is an NPR affiliate in Washington, D.C.

The interview is available in the archives: http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/07/02/01.php#12645

Frank seems to own up to the "death tax" phrase in the interview. So if I knew how I would fix the first citation needed in the Use of Language section, I would.

Ms. Rehms takes Mr. Luntz to task several times for evading questions.

IMO, the last caller to the show categorically rebuts Mr. Luntz's arguement for calling it a death tax. Luntz is saved by the bell.

I find the above reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels educational. I liked it better when the follow up pointed out Goebbells was a Nazi.

RufusBugleWeed 20:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Worked for Clinton?

I saw Frank Luntz on TV and they mentioned he worked for Bill CLinton. Is this true? If so this should be included because the article focuses on his work for George Bush. JettaMann 02:03, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Winter cleaning

Ding, dong, cleaning service. This article seems to be bloating with unsourced material again. Can sources be used going forward? Thanks, --Tom 00:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed the youtube citation and material. If we can find a RS that might be different. Thanks, --Tom 13:58, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Erm - sorry. I have nothing against you removing the youtube link - but the text and citation (of P&T) is reliable. We can discuss if it has weight enough to be here, though. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 15:18, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Do you have a RS secondary source for the Penn and Teller material? Just citing a show and date isn't really enough it seems for this type of criticism. Anyways, --Tom 16:40, 20 December 2007 (UTC)ps, I am not really disputing the material/truth per say, its more that it reads as original research or synthesis(sp) taken from a program. We should RS that say "XZY does/did this" ect--Tom 16:42, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes i have a reliable source: "Penn&Teller: Bullshit - Numbers" Season 4 Episode 9, May 2006. The show itself is a reliable source to the show itself. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 17:06, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Thats the problem in itself. Can you provide a transcipt of the show? Did they actually say "he uses numbers in order to give validity to his own views"? or is that somebodies interuptation of what they were saying. The best thing to do is to defer to secondary sources that comment on the show and independently verifiy the material that is being put into this article, especially per BLP. Thanks, --Tom 17:14, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
You can watch the show to verify it if you want. WP doesn't require that reliable sources are available online - and a lot of them aren't... books, films etc. The youtube video makes it possible for you to verify it personally, even if we cannot link to it for copyright reasons. So what is the complaint? --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 15:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

If youtube was a RS then you could watch it and see for yourself what was said as that episode is on it. A problem is that RS's don't like to report negatively on their own people. Lots of other sources claim (with video evidence) that Luntz lectures the poll groups before they vote to sway opinion and that some people are appearing in more than one "randomly selected" group. Wayne (talk) 03:52, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

He can watch it anyways ;-) - but i agree with your deletion of the youtube link, as it is an obvious copyvio. I've reinserted the critique with proper citation. As mentioned in my edit-summary, it is debatable though, whether its notable enough to be mentioned though. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 15:42, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fox News GOP Debate Review

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFL-LubDF9c —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.188.178 (talk) 06:40, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced material being added

An IP keeps adding large block of unsourced, original resaerch sounding material to the article which I keep reverting. IP, if you can provide sources here, they can be reviewed here and the community can decide if the material is worthy of inclusion. Anyways, --Tom 19:41, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Your point is? This guy is as crooked as the day is long. Check this link out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFL-LubDF9c —Preceding unsigned comment added by Faux newsstinks (talk • contribs) 04:22, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

That may well be - but without references to back these additions up - they are out per WP:BLP. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 21:51, 20 January 2008 (UTC)