Talk:Ford Duratec engine

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Contents 1 General Chatter 2 Duratec derivation 3 Separating families from marketing names 4 More name games 5 More name games 6 HP Rounding 7 6.0L GT90 8 Cosworth Involvement

[edit] General Chatter

Guys, try to keep the chatter from hiding the "Contents" box, ok? Additions belong at the bottom of the page, or under the proper heading, not at the top, pushing everything down the page. Kythri 19:38, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the Aston Martin V12: The description of the engine as being designed by Cosworth is in disagreement with the description on the Aston Martin V12 Vanquish page (which says the engine was designed by Ford Research).

I'm pretty sure these are several completely different engine families under one name.

The 2.5L and under v6 engines used mostly in Europe (Mondeo, X-type, etc.) was developed in conjunction with Yamaha if I'm not mistaken. It also spawned the Taurus SHO v8, which was a 2.5L with two cylinders added on. There are rumours that Ford/Yamaha may bring out a new v8 variant for use in FWD Volvo's and Fords/Lincolns.

The 3.0L and upcoming 3.5L Duratec is a North American design, and comes in many forms from the SOHC Taurus v6 to the DOHC VVT Mazda variant to the even more powerful Jaguar and Lincoln versions. The Aston Martin v12 is basically two of these engines end-to-end.

The new "Duratec" i4 engines are the new global family designed by Mazda in Japan.

The DuraTORQUE diesels are PSA designs.

I'll have to check all this tho' -- stewacide 23:50, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Hi, I agree it's pretty confusing when several apparently different engines all start using the same name. There's a lot of confusion in the motoring press that is perpetuated in all kinds of places that makes it hard to estabish the actual facts. For instance, I used to think that all Zetecs were based on a Yamaha design, but I'm now fairly certain that only the enhanced Zetec-SE was Yamaha, appearing first as the 1.25.

The 3.0L is used in Europe in both the Mondeo and X-Type ranges and appears to me to be a bored out 2.5 engine, as it is very similar. Should be confirmed though.

PS I'm pretty sure that the original Duratorq engines (2.0TDDI in 2000 Mondeo) were nothing to do with PSA, but Ford did work with them when producing the new 1.6 and revised 2.0 units that are appearing now. That's why I think people are mistaking them for original PSA designs.

I'm actually of the opinion myself that the only true European Duratec is the original 2.5 V6 in the Mondeo, the rest just seem to be improved Zetec engines (re-worked by Mazda, like you say) that are re-branded. Still, if Ford call them Duratec then that is how I have to classify them..

Messy business isn't it? I prefer the GM system were engines are given well known code names *and* a brand name, it's so much more obvious what things are!

Let me know what you find! Cheers --Pete Richardson 10:02, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I've also heard that the 2.5 family was designed by Porsche so I'll have to look into it. I knew the 3.0 was used in Europe (the S-type also has it, and I think the XJ in Europe does as well). There's also the question of how the Volvo i5s and i6s relate to other corporate engines. I'm also not sure what the story is with the new 3.5 v6 program - I've heard it's supposed to be very modular and can stretch anywhere between ~3.2 and ~3.8 litres.

Either way the Ford DOHC v6s are my favorites right now, the 2.5 especially. It's a tragedy we don't get the Mondeo/Cougar in North America anymore, although judgeing by the Zephyr concept the Futura may make up for it!!!

And as if things wern't complicated enough Ford has the existing ~4.0L v6 family as used in the Ford/Mercury North American minivans, a bunch of SUVs (Explorer, etc.), Ford and Mazda pickups, Mustang, and I think some upcoming Land Rover products. I'm not sure if this is ever refered to as a Duratec. I think it may be a cut down version of the Crown Vic/Town Car "Windsor" engine but again I'd have to look it all up. I'm also not sure if the new large v6s are meant to replace this family or not - they seem to have given it something of an overhaul with the new Mustang...

And we don't have to include them all under the same article if they aren't related. I'll try and find the internal designations for the families and make seperate articles for each, with this page acting as a pointer.

...when I'm done exams that is ;) -- stewacide 13:06, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Duratec derivation

The original Duratec V6 was the 2.5L version, and Ford had significant design help from Porsche. The block architecture (a short block with a girdle, instead of a deep skirt block with bearing caps) is unique in Ford. It was launched in Cleveland Engine Plant #2 about 1994.

The 3.0L was the bored out version of the same engine, and they are build on the same line, you need to know your parts to distinguish them.

Subsequently Ford decided to use the Duratec name as a marketing tool and slapped it on a bunch of other engines.

In 2004 Ford expanded capacity by adding a line at Cleveland Engine Plant #1 to support the Ford Five Hundred. This is a more flexible line and can be converted to other engines in the future.

The Duratec 35 is a new design using an old name.--Pmeisel 17:45, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm trying to work out the myriad of Ford engine rename jobs. Witness the Ford Zetec engine edits! It's frustrating - they reuse the Zetec and Duratec names frequently. Does anyone know the actual code name for the 2.5/3.0L Duratec V6? Was it Duratec? I sure hope not. Otherwise, we can disamb the engine families from the marketing name as I did on the Zetec article. Still in progress, BTW... --SFoskett 04:47, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)

Well, I hate to disappoint you, but the the 2.5/3.0 was actually known as the Duratec from preproduction. I first heard it a couple years before the first one in a vehicle. All the other "Duratecs" are wearing a marketing label only. Zetec was the 4 cylinder replacement for the CVH. It is complicated..... Pmeisel 04:39, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Separating families from marketing names

You know, I think that is a great idea. The 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder designs have nothing in common but a blue oval... I would be glad to help as much as possible.

-=----------------

Could anyone state what sort of engine is this ?

etis.ford.com reported on the VIN Number:

Version: Series 30

Engine: 1.25 Zetec-S / Duratec DOHC EFI (75PS)

Local Police registration authorities stated in the vehicle registration certificate: 1242 cmc Code: JH1/FUJA I

Is this engine related in any way to the paragraph on "The advanced Zetec-SE was developed in collaboration of Yamaha and Mazda, under the Sigma codename" Why is it codenamed FUJA and not Zetec ?

[edit] More name games

The Mazda MZI, Duratec ST, and Duratec SE 3.0L are all variants of the basic RFF, built down the same line, and very difficult to distinguish from one another... not sure how best to incorporate that in the article... I try to post a summary of applications here if that will help. The new Fusion/Milan/Zephyr motor is also an RFF variant.

[edit] More name games

The Mazda MZI, Duratec ST, and Duratec SE 3.0L are all variants of the basic RFF, built down the same line, and very difficult to distinguish from one another... not sure how best to incorporate that in the article... I'll try to post a summary of applications here if that will help. The new Fusion/Milan/Zephyr motor is also an RFF variant.--Pmeisel 05:21, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] HP Rounding

I see 232 HP for the Jag and Lincoln using DAMB...but the page claims the existence of 3.0L duratecs up to 240 HP. Is this just rounding or do such things exist?--Skunkworx 23:07, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

If you look around the 3.0L S-Type was listed at 240hp when it first came out in 2000 model year. Later, it was rated at 235hp. The Jaguars and Lincoln Duratecs have different intakes and exhaust which can make for slightly different ratings. Things of note that could be added/revised to the webpage are:

1) There are other versions of the DAMB Duratec than the 3.0L. Jaguar also uses a 2.5L DAMB in the X-Type and S-Type. The X-Type is also available with a 2.0L DAMB Duratec V6 engine. They use the same block as the 2.5L but put in a short stroke crankshaft, longer con rods, and different piston. Jaguar calls the Duratec engines in their vehicles AJ-V6. So the the 3.0L is the AJ30, etc. The 3.0L DAMB engine for the 2000-2002 Lincoln LS did not have variable cam timing. In 2003, VCT was added to the Lincoln LS.

2) The Ranger has never used the 2.5L Duratec V6. The 2.5L engine that was used in 1999/2000 was a four cylinder engine.

3) The 2.5L Duratec SVT used in the 1998-2000 Contour was also available in the 1999-2000 Mondeo. I believe it was referred to as the Mondeo ST200 at the time. The extra power of the SVT version was gained through the use of higher compression pistons, premium fuel, more aggressive camshaft profiles, and Extrudehoning of the intake tract. --Procyon5 03:03, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 6.0L GT90

The 6.0L from the GT90 was based on two 90-degree V-8 blocks, not two V-6's. --Eljamoquio 20:50, 19 October 2006 (UTC)E 05:21, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, I searched around the web and found several pictures of the GT90 engine. It most definately has a 90° angle between cylinder banks instead of the 60° angle found on the Duratec V6. --Procyon5 16:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cosworth Involvement

I'm removing this section under References:

The Aston Martin V12 engine was designed at Ford Research in the USA. Cosworth Technologies was originally contracted to manufacture the engine, but had no involvement with the design. Previous articles which correctly recount this engine's development have appeared in Automotive Industries magazine.

It contradicts other information in the article, and if in fact it is valid, it doesn't belong under "References". The submitter needs to learn how to properly edit the article. Kythri 19:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm removing it entirely. There is no reference, and the original engine was designed by Ford's Advanced Engines.--Eljamoquio 21:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)