Talk:Foil (fencing)

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A summary of this article appears in Fencing.

Contents 1 Comment 2 Picture 3 "Todays Top Foil Fencers" section 4 Grips 5 Fleuret

[edit] Comment

The following doesn't quite meet NPOV, and is a little inaccurate:

"There are three main types of foil, the most common being the French style, with a grip (handle or hilt) designed to facilitate greater finesse. Other types include the Italian style, which is designed more for control and power, and the orthopedic, or pistol-grip, which takes the need for a firm hold on the weapon even further. Critics of the pistol-grip, however, claim this leads to a "deathgrip" on the foil and inhibits true mastery."

So I changed it to this:

"There are three main types of foil, including the French style, with a grip (handle or hilt) designed to facilitate greater finesse. Other types include the Italian style, whose grip is designed more for control and power, and the orthopedic, or pistol grip, which takes the need for a firm hold on the weapon even further. The French style is commonly found among classical fencing masters, while sport fencers often prefer the pistol grip. Critics of the pistol grip, however, claim this leads to a "deathgrip" on the foil and inhibits true mastery."

But those are the main ones, the main grips are only French and variations of the Pistol grip. Italian is uncommon, sure it is still used, but not as much as the main two. Yeah I kind of agree to the "deathgrip" because I've noticed that my hand sorta grabs onto the pistol a bit too hard sometimes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.247.113.98 (talk) 23:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

What exactly is a deathgrip? I've always used pistols, with the exception of dry weapons, and haven't noticed any ailments. Aside from that, I think that article is much better now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.167.226.216 (talk) 21:45, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

A deathgrip is simply gripping the weapon too hard.

I went and corected the grip section to indicate that the Italian, while legal, ir rarely used. In addition, I corected the part about the foil circuit....the light does NOT fire on completion of the circuit....that's epee. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.105.88.17 (talk) 04:07, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, for the record, is it even worth mentioning the certain variations of the Italian grip? They resemble pistols except they have a small ring for the forefinger. I've never seen one in the states, so whether they're legal in competition is beyond me, although my brother fenced with one in the UK once. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wickiswalter (talk • contribs) 19:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

I know the Italian grip is in the picture right now for historical reasons, but I think that it should really be an modern electric French or pistol grip. At the very least one should be present for comparison. Isopropyl 05:17, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do about getting a picture of a foil.--digital_me^{(TalkˑContribs)} 16:47, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know why the Italian grip is even mentioned in the article - as far as I know it is not used at all in modern fencing. In my experience, the overwhelming majority of sport fencing is with a pistol grip, and very few people use French. It tends to cause a more violent style of fencing due to much less control over the foil. --Katrielalex 23:17, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

If you know how to use it, the French grip gives an extreme amount of control over the foil, but most people do not know how to use it, and it also doesn't allow for flicking, which may or may not be re-introduced. In any case, the Italian grip is extremely rare in all weapons.--digital_me^{(Talk•Contribs)} 03:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

It may be rare, but the Italian is used by some in sport fencing. You could never get me to trade my Italian grip for a French or Pistol. It's saved me from being disarmed on at least two occasions where I only had my fingers in a ring but was able to recover before my opponent pressed the advantage.TerminalSaint 07:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC

But since a disarm stops the action, it is not terribly critical to keep from being disarmed.

Agreed. French grip, with accomplished fencer, is less violent in my experience.--Epeefleche 03:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough - I have no experience of international-level fencing so I'm just talking about what I know. In any case, Italian should go, right? --Katrielalex 07:59, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd say that the violent people gravitate more towards the pistols than the pistols causing violence. It does make for a much more powerful beat, and it is also easier on the two main fingers when going against a larger opponent. Anyway, it is important enough to be worth a mention

[edit] "Todays Top Foil Fencers" section

Seems like just a bunch of badly formatted and mispelled assertions. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.68.157.4 (talk) 23:35, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

Would someone with adequate knowledge of the sport (i.e. not myself) mind checking the last paragraph under "Foil Today" for accuracy and NPOV? 68.95.231.34 22:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grips

I know a person who was carrying 30-ish pistol grip foils for his fencing team and when he entered the airport, the police said "what do you have in there?" and he said, "30 pistol grips"... I think you know what happened next.

[edit] Fleuret

I wiki'd Fleuret and got redirected to foil, but there is no reference to fleuret here, so I am none the wiser. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IceDragon64 (talk • contribs) 11:54, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Fleuret is French for "foil" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.216.1.16 (talk) 06:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)