Talk:Fluoride poisoning

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For an October 2004 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Fluoride poisoning

  • It seems obvious that this page was created in order to argue against public fluoridation of drinking water - a topic of debate in some parts of the U.S., and perhaps elsewhere. I took all that out, leaving virtually nothing, because Wikipedia is not a debate forum (or, at least, it shouldn't be). Please edit this to be an encyclopedia article, using facts, not surmizes, and trying to be NPOV. DavidWBrooks 21:37, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • David is INCORRECT. This article was created SOLELY because somebody asked me today about this issue and I searched for it in Wikipedia and did not find proper answers. So I decided to create the article and will work on it in the coming days. Whoever wants to contribute, feel free to do so.--AAAAA 23:35, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • I changed the redirect by Rhobyte because I think this topic "Fluoride poisoning" deserves a separate article from the "Water fluoridation". I might move some info from the Water Fluoridation article to this one. --AAAAA 23:35, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
      • I changed it back. This article contains a single sentence of information, and any discussion of fluoride poisoning is well within the scope of Water fluoridation and Fluoride. Rhobite 00:44, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

I apologize for my over-hasty statements. The original article read to me as if it was meant to become an anti-fluoridation argument; I certainly shouldn't attribute motive to others. - DavidWBrooks 01:34, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

That's my reading of the initial article as well. Water fluoridation also needs some help. Perhaps we need four separate articles:

  • Fluoride should be about fluoride (d'oh).
  • Water fluoridation should be about the techniques and history, not focussed purely on the debate as it is currently.
  • A separate article is IMO merited on the debate, containing all three headed sections of the current Water fluoridation article.
  • Fluoride poisoning should be about the currently accepted medical and scientific opinions, with attributed mention of any held in dispute by particular causes and movements.

Comments? Andrewa 05:42, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

    • I agree 100% with with Andrewa. Also, whoever reads this, please start colaborating with the article. Any help will be appreciated.--AAAAA 11:00, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • Agree. It will be regrettable to split up Water fluoridation, but with the arguments on policy you will never be able to add anything else. Also I'd like to note that fluoride, which you correctly note should be about fluoride chemistry, currently has very little of that. I t would probably also be a good idea to interlink them (like This article is about X. See Y for discussion on ...) to discourage topical spillover. Securiger 02:52, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

SB: I agree with the 4-way split.

I also think the fluoride poisoning article has merit; fluoride poisoning may occur from many causes other than fluoridation. There are also some villages in India full of crippling skeletal fluorosis cases that demand some kind of article all by themselves.

I do have an issue, though.

Fluoridation is widely regarded as safe and scientific by the US(even if there are dissents), but is widely regarded as unsafe and unscientific by most of the world (i.e. only 1% of europe fluoridates, Japan and China ban it, etc). There are a dozen or so medicine/chemistry nobel prize winners who oppose fluoridation as unsafe, and none who support it.

I'm however having difficulty having the people accept that the USA's scientific claims are often POV and shouldn't be mistaken for a worldwide widely accepted scientific NPOV. Despite the fact some 'vitamin dictionnaries' from the US and Canada claim "fluoride deficiency" causes teeth damage! The fact is you will not find Hypofluoremia(fluoride deficiency) in Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary simply because, strictly speaking, there is no such thing as human Fluoride Deficiency. [1]

If it's not possible to get a deficiency of it, therefore the non-debate articles will have to mention it's a medication.

I intend to make a very short mention (1 phrase) of the opposing views of Europe, Asia, Japan, etc. as part of some of the non-debate articles(as well as mention the status as a medication), with a link to the debate article. I think the non-debate fluoridation article needs to mention those two points to remain NPOV; the view of fluoride as a supplement and the illusion of worldwide scientific agreement are too strong to be left ignored.

The rest of the debate should be in the debate article, though.

(I have a habit of announcing changes in the talk pages before actually modifying the article - to avoid edit wars; I notice that others often just modify the article. Is one or the other practice better?)

  • Please DO add or correct whatever you like. For me: THE BIGGER THE BETTER. If you can, include A LOT of information. I personally like big articles. Small articles you can find anywhere on the internet.
Well I tend to pre-announce major changes if they directly oppose something someone else has done, make less controversial major changes straight away but often with an added explanation on the talk pages, and just do minor changes straight away. My subjective impression is that it does help avoid edit wars.
Anyway, if by "non-debate fluoridation article" you mean this page (fluoride poisoning), then I really hope you'll reconsider. This article should not be about fluoridation at all, it should be about the toxicology of fluoride ions. There is no debate on the subject; it is a well studied, well understood subject and there is no need for any POVness as long as everyone just sticks to the facts. If you start bringing the fluoridation debate in here, it is bound to spill over and turn this article into a mess as well. Just link to this one from water fluoridation; you will be able to point out that fluoride is indeed quite poisonous, they will point out that the dose makes the poison, and so on. Securiger 02:52, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Corrections please

Thanks for your attention to the facts of this subject and apparent willingness to get to the bottom of this issue.

Could I request some small additional changes to this page - all located at head of article.

1. "Fluoride is taken out of circulation by the body and trace amounts bound in bone" is incorrect and should say "Fluoride is taken out of circulation by the body and stored in bone" because the levels in affected bone are not 'trace' amounts but can be quite large ('000's ppm).

2. "The only generally accepted adverse effect of low concentration water fluoridation at this time is dental fluorosis" - should add "and skeletal fluorosis".

3. "Fluoride in small amount is beneficial to teeth see Fluoride therapy". This stamement is incorrect because it implies that consumed fluoride is beneficial when it is now generally accepted (in scientific terms) that fluoride is not safe to consume but can/might benefit teeth when applied topically. Could you please amend this statement to say "Fluoride is presumed to be beneficial to teeth when applied to the tooth surface" or similar.

Thanks LisaChris 01:13, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Organofluorine compounds

"Organofluorine compounds do not contain soluble fluoride and thus are not toxic because of fluorine. Organofluorines include many kinds of compounds such as Teflon and fluoxetine." These lines need immediate citation or removal, otherwise it's just one-sided opinion. Also, what about when organofluorines(particularly Teflon) are heated? Doesn't that free the fluoride or at least produce vapors (possibly toxic?)? Wiki is not a debate forum, but it should at least explain that the topic is currently debated and list both view points, with appropriate studies and research cited on both sides. This of course should be presented in a neutral, balanced and unbiased way, but it still needs to present them. Presenting only one side of the issue at hand is, in itself, biased. It should be the individual's decision to decide which parts they agree with until the issue is wholly resolved. ♠♣VashTexan (talk) 15:51, 21 April 2008 (UTC)♥♦