Talk:Flow (psychology)
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[edit] Csíkszentmihályi-centric
Questionable statement: "Proposed by psychologist Mihály Csíkszentmihályi, the concept has been widely referenced across a variety of fields." - if that is so, why are almost all the references by Csíkszentmihályi? And why are none of the others scholarly? If it's studied in psychology, at least reference a journal. I say change the sentence to "Proposed by psychologist Mihály Csíkszentmihályi, a number of books have since been written on the topic." Winter Breeze (talk) 09:21, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Etymology References
Can someone substantiate the claim that "This is where the phrase 'go with the flow' comes from" with some serious etymology? I always thought that "go with the flow" had more to do with doing things the conventional way -- either that or acting the way that "everyone else does". --Ryguasu 05:51, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
- I do not have facts about the etymology, but I'm inclined to agree with Ryguasu. That is, "to go with the flow" does probably not come from Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, but is of earlier origins. And I do believe that it means "to do things in the conventional way". --Tbackstr 09:55, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)
Yep, I think you're right, guys, so I've removed that horrid, confused sentence with a new etymology section, using info from the chapter The Measurement of Flow in Everyday Life: Toward a Theory of Emergent Motivation by Csikszentmihalyi and Rathunde in the Nebraska Symposium on Motivation, volume 40, 1993. Ppe42 14:49, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
This appears to share many things in common with Hack Mode from the hacker lexicon. Perhaps that should be mentioned. (anon edit by 69.19.19.219)
- Good point. Btw: you can add stuff yourself, no need to ask others :-) Cheers, Peter S. 09:38, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps I'm from another planet (albeit an English speaking one, or so I always thought) -- but this sentence struck me as just way, way off: "The psychological concept of flow as becoming absorbed in an activity is thus unrelated to the older phrase "to go with the flow" which means "to conform"." In some contexts, a speaker may employ the term as a soft way to urge that someone else be a "team player" etc, but in general, "go with the flow" has always meant, I thought, simply "take things as they come" - which relates it to the idea of "being in the moment." I think this reference to conformity is confusing, and pulls the discussion into an unrelated territory. And really, why is an "etymology" section necessary? Surely the term is self-evident to anyone whose English is good enough to read the article.
[edit] Flow and Video Games
Video games seem designed to elicit "flow." (comment by Atticus)
- Yeah, I noticed that, too. Tetris seems to be very good at this. Also, non-video game Sudoku is fantastic at inducing flow. Peter S. 11:25, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
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- I play a lot of rhythm games and I experience this all the time. I enjoy games such as Beatmania, Dance Dance Revolution, Guitar Hero, and other less popular rhythm games for the sole purpose of achieving flow. It is a good feeling.Andrew zot 07:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
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- I disagree with the uncited statement that Guitar Hero is particularly known for achieving flow. Rhythm games work well for many people, but rhythm games don't work best for everyone, nor is Guitar Hero necessarily the seminal example. They follow the same basic concept as the old Shoot 'em up games. Anecdotally, I'm terrible at them, as are many people I know. Games that require large scale organizational thinking such as city/civilization builders and strategy games, as well as those that require reflex such as FPS, best help me find flow, and unsurprisingly I find them most enjoyable. I think it's enough to say that video games are designed around the flow experience, often consciously, and that different players will achieve flow in games that best suit them. (comment by Nphyx)
Comment on flow in Video Games, by George Blank
In 1978, I wrote an article applying and analyzing the concept of flow in computer games. The two part article, "Writing Good Computer Games," appeared in the January and February 1979 issues of SoftSide magazine (Milford NH)and was reprinted in Judge's Guild Journal, Issue L, 1979. The concept of flow was critical to me in writing the first graphical "God game" for microcomputers, "Santa Paravia and Fiumaccio." That game launched a billion dollar industry of games based on guns versus butter economic tradeoffs resulting in graphical empire building and character development.
Personal definition after flow experiences
You know you had ‘Flow’ when you have just completed a challenging task, and you do not know where you got the extraordinary creativity from, that you just demonstrated. You felt exhilarated. Your concentration was so deeply focused on what you were doing that nothing else mattered. You performed at your peak, with extreme inner fulfillment, with the satisfaction that your previous limits were surpassed. The pure pleasure distilled from doing the task overwhelmed all external influences. It catapulted you into the harmonious flow of spontaneity, creativity, effectuality and natural psychic energy.--Louispalm 09:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Comparison between flow experience and video games is of course foundation of famous Zenclavier article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ceplm (talk • contribs) 09:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC).
Someone might find this paper interesting: I don't know if it is really good for mass consumption ;), so adding it to the Talk page instead. If others feel it is of value, could add to external links: "GameFlow: A Model for Evaluating Player Enjoyment in Games" , (PENELOPE SWEETSER AND PETA WYETH The University of Queensland, St Lucia, Australia); ACM Computers in Entertainment, Vol. 3, No. 3, July 2005.
--edited by Chinmay —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.163.212.195 (talk) 13:50, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
- I removed the portion jabbering on about MMORPGs because flow is not exclusive to that genre, and the reference used makes no mention of MMORPGs either, which pretty much implies the contributer is -- much like most MMORPGers-- biased toward that genre to the exclusion of others. Ffxi frohike 9:14 PST, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Goal Attainability
I have added to the goal component to account for attainability. Csikszentmihalyi emphasizes this stating that one's goal must be reasonably attainable to avoid frustrations that would disrupt the flow process, but must also be difficult enough to engage the individual enough to allow for the experience of flow. As an example, I would be unlikely to achieve flow through attempting to solve extraordinarily complex applied mathematics equations, whereas learning to play guitar may allow me to reach this state. L00ptid 01:20, 11 April 2007 (UTC)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by L00ptid (talk • contribs) 00:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Removed External Link
I have removed the following link: "* The Flow Experience: The Summa Cum Lousy Of Bad Psychology Contrarian view of flow." It seemed improper for an encyclopedia to link to a source that includes no author name, contact address or any other information that would make it credible. Dvyjns (talk) 21:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] consequences of loss of flow
It would perhaps be interesting to add a section on what happens if flow is broken for some reason. ISTR a report that it takes at least 15 minutes to get back in. My personal experiences include complete loss of concentration and immediate energy deficits, and up to having to call it a day and need to sleep. I don't have references, however. 85.179.81.31 (talk) 14:44, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] you can merge a few points
a few points in the list of identification of flow can be merged, making it 7 points. Also some point describe effects of the flow, but some describe ways to achieve and attain it, and I think does should be in a separate place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.125.8.206 (talk) 22:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
