Talk:Florida Central Voting File

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[edit] NPOV dispute?

there are no insinuations in this aricle. there are statements of relevant and significant fact.

the phone call is a statement by the vice president of the company that made the central voting file for 2000. I fail to see how a factual statement from the source in question is a non-factual opinion from a source other than the source in question. Kevin Baas | talk 21:57, 2004 Aug 27 (UTC)

The page is a list of facts compiled from multiple sources and corroborated. The primary sources are listed at the end of the article.

The facts are laid out chronologically, without interpretation or extrapolation. If, in putting the facts together, one forms an overall picture and draws certain conclusions, that does not mean that the article is not npov. That is their own synthesis of the information and their own conclusion that they are coming to. The sentiment invoked by that conclusion is not proof of pov. Kevin Baas | talk 16:55, 2004 Sep 2 (UTC)

This article is one of the most biased, illogical and false ones I have read on this Wiki yet. I fully support the inclusion of the NPOV tag - this article is a mess! [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 Image:USA.Flag.20x12.gif ]] 03:27, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Find me a false statement in the article. Kevin Baas | talk 17:32, 2004 Sep 4 (UTC)

Appeals is not a reliable measure. This is clear because of the great number and extent of mistakes made. Besides the fact that people who knew that they were felons probably wouldn't bother appealing. And people who are felons generally know that they are. Giving this, one should expect that the vast majority of those appealing are non-felons, yet, non-felons' appeals were rejected at a significant -seemingly arbitrary- frequency.

It is not required that the distribution be homogenous in order for the sample to be representative, as you have suggested now in the article. It requires only that we have no knowledge about the distribution. In this case, we have no knowledge about the distribution, as you have suggested in the article. The extension to the larger sample size includes this lack of knowledge in the confidence level. It is misleading to say that these have not been taken into account when indeed they have. Kevin Baas | talk 17:47, 2004 Sep 4 (UTC)

And you're arbitrarily ommiting the verifiable fact that none of the names on the felon list were hispanic?!?! Kevin Baas | talk 17:51, 2004 Sep 4 (UTC)

What proof of "Hispanic(ism)" do you offer? Last names? Isn't that a little presumptious and sugegstive of sterotyping? [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 ]] 21:39, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Instead of taking mine, or anyone else's word for it, for that matter, why don't you do your own research and find out. Kevin Baas | talk 23:41, 2004 Sep 4 (UTC)

I'm sorry, it turns out that there were 61 hispanics on the 2000 list. That's not to say that there were 61 people listed as hispanic on the list. But the 2004 list is new and improved: 0% hispanics total. Those hispanics are angels ;). I wonder how much it cost them to do that. Kevin Baas | talk 18:18, 2004 Sep 4 (UTC)

This "Besides the fact that people who knew that they were felons probably wouldn't bother appealing." is 100% illogical. It is precisly those people who believe that they are not felons and who think they can show that, who would appeal - that is if they are about voting. On the other hand, if they don't care about voting, then a SNAFU which blocks them is moot - because they aren't going to vote anyway. [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 ]] 19:02, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

That's what I said. You just agreed with me. Kevin Baas | talk 19:44, 2004 Sep 4 (UTC)

Then this supports my view that the supposed wrongly "disenfranchished" by and large were either properly barred from voting or did not care about voting anyway. In either case, they were not "disenfranchised". No harm, no foul. [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 ]] 21:37, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Firstly, this is about appeals, not about voting. Secondly, even if it were about voting, it would still be completely irrelevant: what's relevant is whether elgible voters were purged from the voter rolls, regardless of whether or not they voted. Thirdly, even if it were, by some contortion of context, relevant, your stated conclusion would not logically follow. There are a number of separate issues here. I think you are getting them confused.

There is one relevant fact in regards to disenfranchisement: elgible voters did not have the opportunity to vote in the election in question. Kevin Baas | talk 23:41, 2004 Sep 4 (UTC)

No, you are confusing things. Think about this: If your neighbor drives his car over your lawn, that's wrong. But if your lawn is not damaged, then he does not owe you anything - no harm, no foul. Same thing with this list. Percentage wise, as little as 50% of all registered voters bother to vote. And as little as 50% of all eligible people who can register do so, so already the pool of people who actually do register and then vote is only about 25-50% (depends on many variables) of all adults. Therefore, at least about 1/2 of all the errors in the list were harmless errors, because those people would not have tried to vote any way. Everyone else could have asked for and received a provisional ballot. We have gone over this on GWB talk page already. You are making a mountin out of a molehill. There was no intended systemic "disenfrachiesment". There is very little to this issue - it's virtually all left wing propaganda to motivate the Democrat base this election. [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 ]] 00:16, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

No. A vote is the most valuable possesion a person can ever have. It is wrong to take it away. It is morally wrong and absolutely inexcusable and intolerable to remove even one elgible voter from a voter role, regardless of whether or not they use their right to vote. Period.

It was systematic. The election supervisors were given orders by the State of Florida to remove elgible voters from voter rolls. The State of Florida had full knowledge that the list contained an inordinate amount of elgible voters before giving these orders. That was wrong. Very wrong.

These hard facts are not propaganda. They are reality. And no, it's not pleasant. Reality isn't always pleasant, but it is worse if we do not have the courage to acknowledge the unpleasant things, and deal with the world as it is before us. Kevin Baas | talk 00:38, 2004 Sep 5 (UTC)

No No No, rather it's an "Axis of Tweezers" which seeks to poke and prod and find small splinters (honest mistakes) and call them boards (big problems). Hey there's one for you "Axis of Tweezers". And isn't the the AARP an "Axis of Geezers"... [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 ]] 01:22, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)