Talk:Flag of Dorset

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This article is misleading.

I was one of the initial creators of this flag. It is NOT the flag of Dorset, it has not been endorsed in any way, shape or form. It doesn't even exist in any printed or woven form!

The only flag currently on sale is a white backgrounded, with three red lions on it - somewhat similar to the county council seal. 87.127.178.28 (talk) 10:43, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I have updated this page with all the correct facts regarding the Dorset 'flags'.87.127.178.28 (talk) 15:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Salvaging this Article

I note, with regret, that this article has been nominated for speedy deletion. Whilst I agree that this article suffers from a tremendous PoV bias in both content and structure, I feel that this is a valid article for inclusion in a dynamic encyclopaedia.

I believe the article may be valid given the following changes:

• Heavy editing and movement of the "Involvement of Dorset County Council" section to form an informative background paragraph, giving a more chronological account of events, after the introduction section (i.e. making it the first sub-headed section).
• Editing of the introduction section to better describe the issue in an NPOV manner.
• Editing to remove any favourable references to "St. Wite's Cross" (or its current designation).
• Heavy editing to remove, or make objective, any subjective references to the design of "St. Wite's Cross" (or its current designation).
• Possibly an additional section to objectively describe the competition to design the flag of dorset.

I hope that this stimulates some debate and leads to this article being reprieved. With no objections I shall make such an edit next week. Speedy McG (talk) 03:34, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Go ahead mate. I think Dorsetpatriot is a little hasty to delete the page. 80.195.146.94 (talk) 10:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I apologise for my efforts - I did try to make this NPOV, but it looks like I failed. I haven't said anything in the article which isn't true though. Please make edits Speedy - but I see no reason to delete the article. White43 (talk) 16:11, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I've had a go at re-doing this article. 87.127.178.28 (talk) 23:42, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Self interest

This page is clearly set up as a self-interest page of Mr White, who is obviosuly pushing for this flag to be accepted as the official flag. A flag should be voted on by the residents of Dorset, not by someone who, seemingly, has his own commercial interests at heart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.238.70.142 (talk) 10:47, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Care to back those slanderous allegations up? White43 (talk) 12:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Slander: to falsely report maliciously. Can't see why the statement should be slanderous as the one contentitious remark about commercial interests is preceded by "seemingly", which converts the comment to an observation or belief of the writer. All the other remarks appear to be perfectly accurate. Dorsetpatriot (talk) 15:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

From this page http://dorsetflag.webs.com/rollofhonour.htm : "Any surplus income generated from this not for profit enterprise will be donated to Dorset based projects and good causes." 87.127.178.28 (talk) 17:35, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Flag for Dorset

Shout the most, spend the most money, and hope that your design becomes the flag for Dorset by default! This should be a fair and open competition with public judging. However, as the competition is informal, with no official support from any governing body in Dorset, it needs to be taken up by the media to run the "beauty contest". Dorsetpatriot (talk) 18:53, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, this page is not about the Flag for Dorset and should be retitled "St Wite's Flag" to be accurate about its content. Dorsetpatriot (talk) 08:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

This page reflects the current situation with regards to the flag in Dorset. There is our flag, there is a banner of arms of the DCC and there is the Council involvement - what more do you want exactly? White43 (talk) 12:55, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I've significantly rewritten this article to better illustrate the current events. White43 (talk) 15:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I am surprised to even see this in Wikipedia. It has not got historical value, promotes an idea of an individual (or small group of individuals) and is usually deleted under Wikipedia rules.Dorsetpatriot (talk) 15:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

So, you feel that flag of devon and flag of wiltshire should equally be deleted? It is about a flag of Dorset - this represents a large group of people does it not? 87.127.178.28 (talk) 17:32, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The page, as at 5th June, has greatly improved from its first submission. It still is not a proper encyclopedia entry as it is currently a news story about a competition for a flag and is promoting a single competitor. Only the Dorset County Council flag (entry elsewhere) is proper for inclusion on this site. Mr White has hijacked Wikipedia to promote his design, when he should have found a blog to do so.Dorsetpatriot (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 08:18, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

The county council arms is not the flag of Dorset, never has been so should NOT be included on this page. I fail to see how it promotes a single competitor - that flag is fairly high profile now, unlike all the other entries, the campaign began way before this contest. The county council only became involved as a result of that campaign - and that is fact. 80.195.146.94 (talk) 10:22, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

What you say(Dorsetpatriot) is unproven and untrue. When this article was created, there was a commercial flag in circulation - a banner of the arms of Dorset County Council and an independent campaign- ours. That was it. Two unofficial flags in circulation and this page reflected that. Since then, the county council have blundered their way into the whole thing(as of April 23rd 2008) and only did so because of what we were doing. Whether it is a contender or not, it is a high profile alternate unofficial flag of Dorset - it is being used by the people of Dorset as a flag of Dorset. One would think Mr DorsetPatriot - that you would clear this article up if you're so unhappy with it - given that there will actually be a Flag Of Dorset selected in the next few months. Deletion is an exercise in futility White43 White43 (talk) 12:12, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I see some of the comments disagreeing with me have widely missed the point. Wikipedia is an on-line encyclopedia and not a newsletter or blog. The article has been greatly toned down since its original entry but I still hold it has no value in this location. It is promotional of a single design in a competition to be the official flag of Dorset. The other counties mentioned in the discussions have passed the deliberation stage and can rightfully be included - they are now historical fact. This flag, firstly St Wite's flag then renamed the Dorset Cross is a matter of the creator's opinion. I will have no objection to an entry once the deliberations are over and a flag chosen. Otherwise, all flags entered to be the official flag should have their own entry in Wikipedia - clearly a nonsense. Mr White calls the banner of the arms of Dorset County Council an unofficial flag. This is misleading in his context. The banner exists and is recognised - as the banner of Dorset County Council. It is not anything other than that, but as it exists officially, it can be mentioned appropriately on Wikipedia. To make an analogy, where is the page that claims David Cameron is Prime Minister? Dorsetpatriot (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 14:36, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The flag does not claim to be the flag of Dorset - it states this. It says it wants is a contender and commerical availability of this flag set it apart from the other entries. It is recognised and used in the same way as the Armorial Banner of the County Arms. Except that the banner is not a flag of Dorset - nor can it be(it is a banner of only DCC, not Bournemouth or Poole Boroughs). I maintain deleting this article is an exercise in futility since there will be an 'official' flag of Dorset in the next few months - if it is not the Dorset Cross, I'm fairly sure that flag is not going to just disappear - like the armorial banner won't either. This article is about 'flag of Dorset' - well, what if there is more than one in circulation - like there is right now - neither of them are officially sanctioned, but they exist. This article should discuss all flags used and in circulation. 87.127.178.28 (talk) 20:50, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Also your analogy is not quite right. There is a prime minister of the UK, hence why Cameron isn't mentioned. There isn't a flag of Dorset, but there are commerically available 'Dorset flags' - two to be precise, even if they aren't official. If there was no PM of the UK, then you'd talk about the contenders - or at least the highest profile ones. I think we should let the user above make his edits to 'salvage' the page, but I reiterate - deleting this page is pointless, it would be recreated in a month or so. 87.127.178.28 (talk) 22:18, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Since this entry has had more face lifts than Joan Rivers, it must difficult for new readers to understand the fuss. This page started off with one intention - to promote the St Wite's design (renamed as the Dorset Cross - both titles creations of the promoters) as a flag for Dorset. It has never been, and is still not, an entry that without bias, discusses the true and total situation that a form of contest exist and that there are numerous entries (none of which are mentioned). I agree with the writer above that "This article should discuss all flags used and in circulation" and it doesn't. Research shows a number of unofficial flags claiming to represent Dorset, not to mention Dorset affiliated flags such as military and recognised non-political organisations. Recommending this page for deletion has achieved some of what I hoped, a discussion, serious re-editing, and openness. I look forward to a proper entry when the chosen design is accepted, such as the Devon Flag entry.Dorsetpatriot (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 08:23, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

You look forward to? I'm sorry, but one would assume that as you'd made all the fuss to start with - that you'd be making the changes? Why didn't you just do that in the first place rather than all this nonsense? Also, what other commerical flags of Dorset are there - - that are just that - a flag of Dorset, not political, military or non-political? 87.127.178.28 (talk) 08:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I refer the writer above to my comments on the Deletion page - I did try to edit into factual information, which was then re-edited each time by the sponsors of the St Wite's Flag. Deletion enables the slate to be wiped and an accurate page to be re-instated once there really is a Dorset Flag.Dorsetpatriot (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 13:22, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Deletion is pointless. There is already a history going on right now and Wikipedia is the place to put that. Wiki is dynamic and is updated all the time. Now as already stated to you, at least two of us wish to see this page continue. Someone has offered to re-edit the page. I suggest you allow this to happen and in the future, if you have objections, voice this on this discussion page. If you edits are reverted, then ask why on this page. This is good Wikipedian practice. You can also see why your edits are reverted by looking at the history of the main article, good practice usually places a reason there. Now, lets concentrate on the positive and getting the page correct. Yes? 87.127.178.28 (talk) 16:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Dorsetpatriot - It was never my intention to mislead or 'advertise'. I tried to re-edit this page to make it NPOV and you agreed it was much improved - now obviously I'm too close to this thing to be objective - but I agree with other comments here - lets allow Speedy to make changes as he's indicated. I've never said anything inaccurate on this page and tried to stick to the facts. But I agree with the above - Wikipedia is dynamic and allows history to be recorded as it occurs - history is being made right now with the Dorset Flag, so lets record that, rather than deleting it. White43 (talk) 16:15, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I've done a substantial rewrite that is hopefully more NPOV. Can we have some comments please? I can't get the images correct - can anyone else help? 87.127.178.28 (talk) 22:15, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

It took a long time to get here but for the first time, the page is what it should have been at the start. Provided there is no reversion to the earlier style, I remove my request for deletion. Dorsetpatriot (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 08:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)