Talk:Fernando Torres

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Date: 23:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
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[edit] Fernando Torres Armband

Can someone add something about Fernando Torres' armband saying "you'll never walk alone" when he was in Atletico, I would do it but I don't know enough about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerrard4eva (talk • contribs) 02:51, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

   YNWA is the club motto for Atletico Madrid.

[edit] Transfer to Liverpool is Official

His move has been made official by the news release on AtleticodeMadrid's official website. Do not change it back http://www.clubatleticodemadrid.com/en/atleticoaldia/noticias.asp?id=1435 Dpool2002 22:56, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you should look at http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/6239286.stm and Liverpool http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N156273070703-1828.htm. Mattythewhite 22:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey kid, perhaps you should read what I put in the other discussion. http://www.clubatleticodemadrid.com/en/atleticoaldia/noticias.asp He's property of Liverpool now. He may not have a new contract, but he's theirs as of now. If you're going to make a distinction between signing and a transfer, then don't announce a transfer until actual paperwork goes through (i.e. hargraves was a Man U player a month ago but his paperwork didn't go through until a few days ago, therfore he shouldn't have been listed as a Man U player until a few days ago, but he was.

Don't refer to me as kid. We don't announce transfers until the paperwork goes through. Which it hasen't in this case (yet). And if Hargreaves was listed as a Man U player a month ago, he shouldn't have been. Not my fault. Mattythewhite 23:19, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

A) You are a kid. It's not an insult. Don't take it as one. I could have called you bro, or dude or man or chum. It's the same thing. B) Tell me where it says you don't announce until the paperwork goes through. C) If that were the case, then the next time there is an election (say for President of the US), wikipedia wouldn't list the newly elected president as the winner until months after the election, when all the votes have been officially tallied. It's one thing to prognosticate, it's something entirely different to report something that is obvious. I work for a broadcast news channel (as a reporter) in the states. I have a pretty good handle on what is and isn't verifiable.Dpool2002 23:26, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks confirmed enough for me. You can't get much more confirmation than his old club announcing "Fernando Torres has been transferred to Liverpool". aLii 23:31, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


this puts me in pain, he got better offers than that!


He will Be Officially No. 9 YokoIRL

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N156281070704-1042.htm

[edit] Manuel "Manolo" Torres relation?

Does anyone know if Fernando Torres could be the grandson of the famous Manuel "Manolo" Torres who was with Real Zaragoza in the 1950ies and even played for Real Madrid temporarily??( http://antoncastro.blogia.com/2005/011502-manuel-torres-un-lateral-del-madrid-y-del-zaragoza.php )

[edit] Photo

His first photo at the top of the page is very old. He looks completely different now, with a very different hairstyle, someone needs to update that. I would but I wouldn't know where to get the picture from, without it violating copyright etc.

I like this picture myself: http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6107/0200718167900mm0.jpg

yeah for the love of god someone please add a new photo of him in the liverpool shirt, this one is disgustingly old —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.103.52.172 (talk) 03:36, August 20, 2007 (UTC)

I watch the game. Mate next to me took photos at the Villa game, will attempt to get him to put them on wikipedia. Londo06 19:58, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

This was a while ago and the picture still has not changed, can someone update please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.68.1.3 (talk) 18:59, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Correction

1. He has not been named Man of the Match after the Spain 3 -1 Tunisia. Xabi Alonso has. ;) Already edited.

2. Goals total for Liverpool through Bolton match was 12 appearances, 6 goals, making his totals 17 and 11, not 18 and 12. Corrected in career table.

[edit] bit about him on his childhood plz

I wanna know how he was raised, how good his family was, any decent memories he's had, or any pain & suffering he's been through. I also want to know what team he supported when he was a child, and like what his goals and achievements were when he was a teen. Darkroom Danny 08:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some facts

Some facts...he intially started playing as a goalie but when he broke his teeth playing his mother told him to switch positions or stop playing. He was nicknamed El Niño not beacuse of his youthful face but because he started with Atletico de Madrid when he was about 16 yrs old. His grandfather played in Atletico de madrid and thats why he wanted to play on that team as well.

[edit] Transfer Speculation

Talks between Liverpool and Madrid are there. Not that it should be added to the article but someone needs to remove that talks between the teams are just a rumour. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=441860&cc=5901 The Atletico Madrid striker has agreed to take a pay cut to join Liverpool, with Anfield officials rubbishing reports that Torres is holding out for a £100,000 a week, six-year contract.


The Reds have offered around £90,000 a week – putting him alongside earners like Xabi Alonso and Jamie Carragher, but short of the club’s highest paid player, skipper Steven Gerrard.

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=gabriel-heinze-next-on-rafa-benitez-wanted-list%26method=full%26objectid=19392721%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

[edit] Vandalism

someone has deleted the entire trivia sectoin and the transfer speculation is incredibly false if you go to fernando torres' website and read the biography at the very end he talks about offers that he has rejected:

"The performance at the World Cup make people talk about my future. Summer, like always, was spotted of the offers I rejected. Sincerely, several teams were interested formally on me, but we said to all of them I wasn’t moving from Atleti. To demonstrate my faithfulness to my colours of all my life, I decided to accepted the proposal of the team to wide my contract for one more season, until June 2009." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.37.18.158 (talk) 05:09, 3 April 2007 (UTC).


The statement about his 'new' contract and transfer rumours on his website refer to last summer, it is genrally accepted that, even if some wouldn't believe it to be concluded, there are ongoing negotiations betwwen Athletico Madrid and Liverpool and it is thought of by many to be a case of just signing the papers. So to call them 'incredibley false' when there's references to it on websites like bbc.co.uk is either uninformed, or just plain denial. Although people shouldnt go over the top with rumour talks as every rumour about every player would take up 5 pages.

[edit] Move

He has just agreed a deal with Liverpool and gone from atletico! Football97 19:09, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Marcaod3.jpg

Image:Marcaod3.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:10, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Useful reference

http://www.football-lineups.com/players/player.php?route=882 (Jor70 19:15, 3 July 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/

complete his move to Anfield on Wednesday.CorleoneSerpicoMontana 23:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

And? He has still to sign the contract. It doesn't magically come into effect by the changed of the day. Mattythewhite 23:04, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] The Kid

He's not called the Kid because of his youthful looks, but because he was actually a kid at the time of his debut. The nickname remained. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.35.236.52 (talk) 22:41, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Translation of 'El Niño' for 'The Kid' is wrong. 'Niño' in spanish means 'male child'. If it would be 'The Kid' in spanish the translation should be 'El chico' or 'el chaval'. But I guess now that's impossible to change. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.209.64.135 (talk) 23:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Could someone stop Ryman_3000 from making further vandalism to the page? He appears to be a Manchester United supporter who's made two edits with false and offensive information about the player. Won't be surprised if he's done so at other Liverpool FC player pages. Agent Sleeper 13:13, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Looking at his past contributions he hasn't done any vandalism to other Livepool FC players pages. However it seems he has vandalised the Chelsea FC page a couple of times over the past few months. Dan the man1983 16:23, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Appearances

28 domestic league appearances for liverpool???? This makes no sense, Premier League has only just finished round 6, making a maximum of 6 appearances! What on earth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.5.59 (talk) 02:48, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Removedd, identified as vandalism F9T 14:17, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV and too much detail

There seems to be a lot of WP:NPOV in this article, especially the section on his Liverpool career. I am a Liverpool fan, but when it comes to Wikipedia we need to take our Liverpool hats off and put our editor hats on, and remain neutral. Also I don't think we need to list every single goal he has scored. Maybe notable goals, such as the first one, and the first hatrick, but that really should be it. John Hayestalk 16:12, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Semi Protection

I wonder if we can get semi-protection for this article, it's not vandalism as such, but the constant edits of his appearences by IPs are getting annoying. John Hayestalk 18:31, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Not highly skilled in that area, but from what i understand, that is not nearly enough to justify Protection, or even Semi. F9T 14:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Don't worry it was semi-protected at the time, and it was enough for it (as it was disruptive) ;) John Hayestalk 15:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion of AM career (cited, from FT's own site), edited text to enhance readability

First of all, I'm new to all this, so do excuse me if I seem as if I'm stepping on toes or doing things in an odd manner.

I've edited the page to expand portions of FT's career at AM, edited some text to enhance overall readability, etc. I hope that it provides a more interesting and informative read.

To be honest, perhaps the first couple of paragraphs should be in a "Pre Atlético Madrid" section. How do people feel about that?

Citing specific pages on FT's own website isn't straightforward, because of the way it's constructed (frames, with Flash-based navigation), so I've just cited the site's main English language page. The information that I've added is mostly from the "News" and "Personal" sections, and shouldn't be too hard to find.

Wikipedia links to Arsenal, Chelsea, etc were already in the article, so it seemed appropriate to add the same for Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc where they were also mentioned, so I also did that.

I plan to make a few more edits to the page when time permits (I'd rather limit my initial experiences to helping to edit one page rather than dozens of pages), so please bear with me if I should do ask stupid questions or do anything that has you wanting to tear your hair out in frustration.

Here are a couple of things that I suppose I'd like to know:

Q: Why isn't it appropriate to point out that FT would have had his second LFC hat-trick during the UCL game vs Porto if he'd been allowed to take the penalty? Surely potentially scoring a second hat-trick so early in his LFC career is relevant, as an illustration of his success in settling at Anfield so quickly, as well as his general goal-scoring ability?

Q: Why do FT's stats in the infobox only include league apps and goals? Isn't it more correct to when looking at a player's career at a glance to look at all his apps and goals? Is league apps and goals only some kind of wiki-wide standard?

Wiakywbfatw (talk) 03:25, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

To answer your second question; Yes it's a wiki-wide policy. As far as the "could have been a hat-trick" question goes, well I think it's a kind of weak point to be honest. He "could" have scored 10 goals in a game, but he didn't, did he? Keep up the good work though :) aLii (talk) 16:28, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
To further the answer to the first question, I deleted it for two reasons, WP:RECENT and WP:N. Yes he could have scored a second hat-trick, I remember the commentator specifically mentioning it, but 1) he didn't, so it's far less likely to be important in the long run 2) even if he had it wouldn't be as notable as his first goal, first hat-trick etc. we don't list every goal he has scored. I hope that explains my decision. John Hayestalk 17:29, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
On the first question, I have to say I have never entirely understood the league goals only policy, though there seems to be some issue with verifying the data, and obviously changing every player article, but the template specifies it, so if you want to change it, you will have to suggest it on Template talk:Infobox Football biography. John Hayestalk 17:35, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'El Niño' (The Kid)

'El Niño' (The Kid). Clearly FT didn't get the nickname just because he looks young. If that was the case then other every young player who ever broke into a senior side would also be nicknamed 'El Niño' or 'The Kid'. The nickname came out not so much because he looked young, not even because he was young, and because he was young and very talented.

Now, I realise this is a perhaps contentious thing to say, but, well, what I've just written is rather obvious, isn't it?

I realise I can't provide a citation (although I am looking for one; I speak a bit of Spanish so that helps) but can anybody provide me with a citation that says the nickname is only because he 'looks young'? I haven't found any source that says that either.

(I think you'd have just as hard a time finding any cite-worthy source to explain why Steve McManaman's nickname was 'Shaggy', or why Michael Owen was called 'St Michael'. Sometimes things are just unspoken or, at the least, not spelt out in literal terms.)

I'm tempted to ask the webmaster of FT's official website for his input on the matter.

What do others think?

Wiakywbfatw (talk) 00:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Asking the webmaster of his site really wouldn't help 1) we couldn't cite it 2) we shouldn't really be using his site for as a source (it's not independant of the subject). Wikipedia has a rule that verifiability is more important than the truth. If you can't prove it in a way that every reader can verify then it shouldn't be in the article. Finally a spanish source wouldn't be any use either, it needs to be an english one. John Hayestalk 00:19, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Well actually that's not entirely true, you could use a Spanish, but only if you follow WP:RSUE. John Hayestalk 00:26, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough, verifiability is more important than the truth. Ill accept that, but where has it been verified that 'Torres is nicknamed 'El Niño' (The Kid), as a reference to his youthful appearance'? I've never seen one reference that says that, either in English or in Spanish.
Short of someone cite-worthy spelling it out ("Fernando Torres is called 'El Niño' (The Kid) because...") then how exactly do you verify any explanation for his nickname? Wiakywbfatw (talk) 00:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
You probably can't, in which case it should be deleted, which is what I will do now. John Hayestalk 08:04, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
OK, I've searched high and low (I ignored all the fan sites, etc because of NPOV) and I've managed to find two cite-worthy English language sites that have something that can be used:
1. www.celebritybiography.net's FT profile: 'He is nicknamed El Niño (The Kid), because of his youth.'
2. www.liverpoolfc.tv's FT profile: 'The player nicknamed El Nino (The Kid) because of his youthful appearance was selected for the 2006 World Cup in Germany, where he scored three goals.'
Which do you want to go with?
The first of these two pages, rather ironically, seems to have a good deal of information, despite being a year or so out of date. Certainly nothing that I've read there has been contradicted elsewhere, so there's no reason to doubt the veracity of any of its content in a historical context. Some of its info regarding FT's transfer speculation in 2005 and 2006 is quite interesting and I may include and cite some of it at a later date.
(By the way, when I suggested asking the webmaster of FT's official site it was because he could perhaps recommend third-party sites that could provide some verifiable evidence.)
Thanks for keeping me focused on NPOV and verifiability, by the way. I still believe that the nickname is to do with talent at such a young age (after all, you have to be talented enough to rise to a level where people are saying "damn, that guy is young" and your youth/youthful looks compared to those of the people around you become a talking point) but without the verification I guess that I'll just have to shelf it.
Wiakywbfatw (talk) 11:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I guess those two sources combined should be enough to cite that. Ideally we shouldn't use the Liverpool site as it's not independent of the subject, but in this case this is hardly a serious issue, so I'm happy to use it. John Hayestalk 11:53, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Oddly, I think that Liverpool's official site is a bad source of information on such things. I've known them to copy one of my wikipedia biographies almost word for word in the past. I wouldn't put it past them to have "borrowed" information from this article to put together their Torres bio. aLii (talk) 12:34, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Very true. John Hayestalk 22:53, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Fernando Torres/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review. GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

This article is in decent shape, but it needs more work before it becomes a Good Article.

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    In the lead, this sentence ---> "He was unable to score for Spain during the 2004 tournament, but managed to net on three occasions in the 2006 World Cup", what does "net" mean? In the Atlético Madrid section, who is this sentence, "The Spaniard was later voted the best player in Europe for that age-group", talking about? Same section, this sentence ---> "Premier League champions Chelsea were believed to be interested in Torres in 2005, but Atlético president Enrique Cerezo that they had "no chance" of signing him", maybe if you add "explained" after Cerezo.
    B. MoS compliance:
    In the Altético Madrid section, it would be best to link other sports team/people once, per here. Also, make sure that one section is linked and not linked twice.
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
    In the Liverpool section, this sentence ---> "March continued to be a good month for the now prolific goal-scorer", sounds like POV and it would be best to re-write it.
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    If the above statement can be answered, I will pass the article. Good luck with improving this article! Also, contact me if the above statements are answered.

--  ThinkBlue  (Hit BLUE) 23:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)