Talk:Fancy rat

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I have removed the references to "Harley" rats as they are not a recognised variety within any rat society worldwide. I have also removed the link to http://www.skyclyde.com as this is a link to the person who alleges to have "discovered" the Harley. Until such time as this is proven to be a genuine new variety (i.e. other ratteries begin to produce "Harleys" and it is recognised as an unstandardised, new variety by at least one respected rat society such as the RMCA), I don't think it is appropriate to mention it in the article. If we were to list every so-called "new" variety discovered each year, there would be more rat varieties than article! Likewise, we cannot provide a link to each rattery with a web presence - there are simply too many of them. Arkady Rose 23:20, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Reorganized the media-section as it looked sloppy. JeebusSez 05:42, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia is not a how-to guide

According to WP:WIN "What Wikipedia is Not", Wikipedia does not offer advice, nor is it a how-to guide. One should be on the lookout for the words "you" and "your" as it's an indication that the text is the wrong style for an encyclopedia. --RainR 13:49, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It's also not a place for advocacy, and this article goes a little bit out of it's way to advocate and defend the idea of rats as pets.

Lines like these are based on opinion, not fact:

Rats make excellent pets for urbanites with small apartments, as they bond with humans and offer much in the way of affection and entertaining activity, but require little space indoors (and don't need to be taken outside at all).

Whereas some of the rarer rat care guides suggest that rats can be kept solitary if given plenty of attention from their human owners, no amount of human attention can replace social interaction with other rats.

And then the worst offender:

Though they do urinate occasionally when allowed to wander outside the cage, especially males who have a tendency to "scent mark" by leaving tiny drops of urine.

Poor grammar aside, this kind of twists one of the more unpleasant aspect of rat ownership to make it seem insignificant (I had several pet rats in my teenagehood - they pee wherever they are whenever they get the urge. Theres no distinction and it's not necessarily occassional, though the bit about male scent marks is science fact.)

This article needs a rewrite. Any brave souls out there? --relaxathon 06:17, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

well, actually most rats do not just pee wherever and whenever they want. i have owned rats for over ten years and have found the marking may occur, the actually urination outside the cadge is very very rare and usually only occurs when a rat can no longer "hold it"

additionally, rats who are comfortable exploring outside their cages can be easily taught to use a litterbox or return to their own cage to toilet. -ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 11:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How2

Wikipedia is not a how to look after your pet guide. If no-one can rewrite the article to an acceptable level, I shall consider listing it at Articles for Deletion. -- Chris Lester ^talk 20:19, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes the article needs a lot of re-writing, but I don't think it's anywhere near deletion worthy. The "How To" information needs rewording, not removing. Looking around at other pet pages, I don't see much difference with the information, just the language. Inkwell 22:37, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Is that a threat? Go right ahead. You'll be ridiculed for listing this on VfD. If you believe that this article contains too much information, feel free to delete some. In the meantime, I'm removing these boilerplates. 216.39.182.234 10:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I see where you are coming from; however, whilst deleting it all together may be a bit harsh, something needs to be done. There are unsourced statements therein. Also refer to WP:NOT, and you'll see that a "How to" guide is not appropriate. All that is neccesary is for the information to be reworked en masse.

For that reason I have restored the boilerplates: other editors seem to agree that there is a need for change. BTW, it wasn't me who put the original boilerplates there in the first place, all I did was select more specific ones. Please contact me if need be. -- Chris Lester ^talk 19:35, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I changed the boilerplate to the generic cleanup notice. I agree that the article needs work, but it is better than many articles I've seen. I advise you to be less heavy-handed in the future. You should also note that VfD has an "inclusionist" bias, and as such any article that has the slightest grounding in reality tends to be retained. Let us fix up this article in good faith, rather than fight over templates.

i have just plain removed the offending text (see below). the info is good and some of it can be worked in with an encyclopeadic one. -ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 11:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Although Wikipedia is not a how to guide, would it be wrong to mention how they are cared for, as opposed to, "How you should care for a rat:"Metaf5 22:05, 13 April 2007 (UTC)"

Yes it would, because it is impossible to say how they are cared for, since everyone cares for them in a different way. It is difficult to imagine any useful generalisations.Mumby 22:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The removal of all the "how to" language has only damaged the article. It needed to be re-written, not deleted. Every other pet page has information about housing and feeding the animals, so why should rats be different? Inkwell 11:36, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fancy Black Rats?

What are the difference between brown and black rats for fancy? Out of better availability, is there some reason to favour brown rats? What are strengths and weaknesses of the black rat compared to the brown rat, when considered as a pet? Reply to David Latapie 18:57, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not an expert, by here are some off-the-cuff thoughts. The thing that makes fancy rats good pets is that they have been bred for many many generations to be pets, with the aggressive, overly skittish, and unmanageable ones being selected out. Presumably the same thing could be done with black rats, but just any old black rat, even if it was born in captivity, would probably not make a good pet. Probably brown rats were the ones bred as pets simply because brown rats are most common in European countries. KarlBunker 21:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

There was some fancy black rats (with variants as albino and green(!)), but they disappeared in the early 20th century. Some people do have black rats as pets, but they aren't really domesticated and they are reported to be more nervous than brown rats. // Liftarn

[edit] muelies?

I came across the word "muelies" in the Food-and-Drink section. Is this a mispelling of muesli? I hesistate to correct this word myself, since I am not the rat expert.Buck Leupitsthlaw 17:27, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Mielies? As in South African ears of corn.

[edit] Other Health Issue's

I'm a rat owner and I've noticed that sometimes my rats eyes turn red and "glassy". Does anyone know what's causing this? Shadow fox7321 19:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I can't help with your above problem, but I want to point out one more fact re: tetracyclines. Not only are they relatively deactivated by iron, but also by calcium, aluminum, magnesium (and pretty much any other divalent cations). In the section regarding nursing sick rats back to health, it was stated that milk, ice cream, cream cheese, etc... were good foods for doing so. This may be true, but these are all dairy products and thus incompatible with tetracyclines. This is also true for another family of antibiotics, the quinolones; I don't know if they are used in rats (they are effective for various strains of Mycoplasma).

[edit] error in homemade food section.

"Another popular homemade diet is made from 50% rabbit food, 10% uncooked pasta, 10% doggy kibble, 40% human breakfast cereals (low sugar) also other items such as low fat crackers, rice-cakes and crumbled dog biscuits can be added."

50%+10%+10%+40%= 110%

I'm not an expert so I don't want to correct it myself, I just noticed it doesnt add up. Tora619 00:01, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lab rats as pets

I am not sure this article notes that possibly the best source of rats is a professional breeder of lab animals. Harlan Sprague Dawley, Inc. sells the Sprague-Dawley rat, which is docile and curious and readily submits to handling. They're friendly toward humans. Believe me when I say that because when I did lab work with rats, they came to the front of their cages and asked to be picked up even after my colleagues and I had given them multiple shots and other such unpleasantness.

That depends. Lab rats are generally not bred for health. They are bred for easy handling and temper (and tend to get a bit fat (but Wisatar is more active than Sprague-Dawley). Also if you wan't something other than the standard pink-eyed white you don't have much choise. // Liftarn (talk)

[edit] moving pet care info

above comments are correct, wikipedia is not for telling people how to take care fo pet rats - it's for general encyclopedic information. If you want to say that fancies used in lab experiments were found to be less stressed when they were given 2 sq ft per rat - that's fine as long as you cite the lab experiment. I've move the info to my user page here. -ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 11:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] House's Rat

Steve didn't have plauge, he had mycoplasmosis (although I can see where the confusion might have stemmed from, as Wilson joked about causing the black death a few lines after House mentioned the diagnosis). I'm changing the article to reflect that. Here is the episode transcript in cause there's any questions: http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/house/season2/house-207.htm BethEnd 01:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding American English/British English

I reverted the anonymous edit to the article that changed all the colours to colors. Unfortunately the link I supplied in my edit summary was wrong, it should be this one: disputes over style issues. Mumby 08:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

Something really needs to be done about the long and ever lengthening list of external links in this article. The Manual of Style says

...it is not Wikipedia's purpose to include a comprehensive list of external links related to each topic.

Some of those links breach pretty much all the guidelines found in wikipedia: external links. I plan on removing virtually all of the links, but I will go through them and leave any that warrant keeping.Mumby 08:53, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok I went a did it, since yet another site was added. Let me quote from the Manual of Style:

it is not Wikipedia's purpose to include a comprehensive list of external links related to each topic.

Furthermore:

Links should be kept to a minimum. A lack of external links, or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.

Links to be avoided:

Links mainly intended to promote a website.

Many of the links were clearly just advertising for certain breeders:

Links to social networking sites (such as MySpace), discussion forums or USENET.

There are many ratty forums on the net, we do not need to link to all of them. Basically, we do not want a list of peoples favourite websites where they hang out and share pcitures of their rats. Please see Wikipedia:External links for further details on the guidelines.Mumby 12:58, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry to say, but, by 'ratty', what exactly do you mean?

I mean rat related. Please sign your comments with 4 tildas like this ~~~~.Mumby 22:40, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

The picture layout in the Colours and markings section now looks really bad. Having pictures on the left and the right makes it look a mess. I think we do need pictures here to illustrate the different markings, surely the gallery format is best? There is no point trying to align the correct image with the relevant part of the text because it is not edit proof, as soon as somebody adds more text you will have to do all your realigning again.Mumby 23:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Error in: Health concerns

Ringtail link leads to the animal, not the condition. I'm not familiar with editing wikipedia pages, so I'm wary to change it myself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.226.226.146 (talk) 17:46, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Wikiproject

I have proposed the creation of Wikiproject Pocket pets, if interested, please visit the proposal page. thanks! VanTucky 05:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Choice of images

The image in the infobox, Fancyrat1.jpg doesn't show the whole body of the animal. Maybe it could go elsewhere on the page, but it doesn't give the essential information you'd expect from an infobox. The other image, Albino_pet_rat.jpg has lost most of its detail through overexposure. There are many other high-quality images that are free to use on Commons. --Rat at WikiFur 23:26, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

---

You're more than welcome to use any of the following pics:

Russian Blue Rex http://homepage.mac.com/lwernham/.Pictures/Ratties%2020070923/0009.jpg

Russian Blue: http://homepage.mac.com/lwernham/.Pictures/Ratties%2020070923/0011.jpg

Black: http://homepage.mac.com/lwernham/.Pictures/Ratties%2020070924/0003.jpg

Lavender: http://homepage.mac.com/lwernham/.Pictures/Ratties%2020070924/0006.jpg

Agouti: http://homepage.mac.com/lwernham/.Pictures/Ratties%2020070924/0010.jpg

All of these are my own pics and I am happy for them to be used here - Lew (talk) 14:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

In order for them to be usable on Wikipedia, they have to be usable not just on Wikipedia, but also allow commercial use as well. If you agree to that, I would suggest uploading them to Wikimedia Commons as that is the repository of images used by Wikipedias. --Rat at WikiFur (talk) 01:33, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hairless rats

The section on hairless rats has some inaccuracies. First, the patchwork rat (a term which I invented 17 years ago) is not related to the true hairless rats. Patchwork hairless rats are a type of double rex rats. Rex genes are different than the gene that causes true hairlessness.

Second, the 3 genes named nude, fuzzy, and shorn are found in special strains of lab rats only, not in pet hairless rats. The gene that causes hairlessness in pet rats is referred to as hr, and is a completely different gene from the lab genes. I have had numerous hairless rats in my career as "The Rat Lady" and none of my hairless rats have had any of the health problems associated with the nude, fuzzy, and shorn genes.

Does anyone object if I make these changes to the page? Debbie "The Rat Lady" Ducommun Debbietheratlady (talk) 22:28, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

A rat history should be added! The "article" isn't an article, its a sentence. What should be added: history of wild rats, how they became tamed, and their needs (diet, home). I have a lot of experience with rats, so I could add a lot to this "article". Right now I have two pet rats. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Irina333 (talk • contribs) 19:54, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

no qualms here! please contribute!!! just remember that ur personal experience is not considered a reliable source and any claims should be backed up by a published source. thanks! -ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 16:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

btw, Debbie, if you could find a book (not written by you), or news article that states you coined the phrase, that would be a great thing to add to the article! -ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 16:58, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rats in movies

Missed out Borris from Home Alone 3, the main charatcer's pet. Borris had a lot of screen time, possibly more than the main characters siblings, but less than the pet parrot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.21.154.113 (talk) 09:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah it was Borris? I though it was Doris and wondered why a buck would be named Doris. // Liftarn (talk)

[edit] Behavior section

i thought it would be better to move this info to the Brown rat page, as nothing in the section is specific to only lab/pet rats, but the behaviors are attributed to the specis as a whole. any other thoughts? -ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 16:54, 20 February 2008 (UTC)