Talk:Eye of a needle

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I've added a paragraph explaining a possible solution for the broken context of this parable, as explained by a Greek lecturer at my university. Unfortunately I do not know Greek myself so if somebody who does could verify it and maybe add the relevant Greek samples, that'd be much appreciated.

--Taramul July 7, 2005 17:58 (UTC)

Contents 1 Tents and camels 2 Camel or Rope 3 Eye of Needle Gate 4 Reference in Neal Stephenson's "Baroque Cycle" series 5 Contextual Meaning of Eye of a Needle 6 prove a negative? 7 The stupid gate theory 8 Secular interpretation

[edit] Tents and camels

A quotation in article:

The Holy One said, open for me a door as big as a needle's eye and I will open for you a door through which may enter tents and [camels?]

IMO there is something screwed up with translation. There is an old Arabic say along the lines that if you let a camel's nose into a tent, then you will get the whole camel inside. Where can one find the original text? It is quite possible that the original author made a witty allusion on both says: the needle/camel and the tent/camel ones, which was not understood by the translator (or translators, if the translation with thru a chain of languages )mikka (t) 00:05, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Camel or Rope

The reading refers to rope most probably made of camel's hair. The two words (καμιλος (rope) and καμηλος (camel) were pronounced the same way at the time. Moreover, critiques of christianity like the camel reference more as it plays up the absurdity angle and the so-called hypocrisy of affluent christians. But, it is simply not true. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.52.166.132 (talk • contribs) 02:22, January 25, 2006.

Rather than it simply be "not true" by your account, how about we keep it as a discrepancy? I believe the latter, however, because it simply makes more sense. Plus, take it a step further - shed all but one thread of the rope and it may pass through the eye of a needle. Now use that with a rich man, shedding his belongings. I could think of one just as good for a camel, give me time. Zchris87v 20:53, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eye of Needle Gate

From this article.

"Meyers, who personally excavated the village of Nazareth where Jesus lived during a 19-year-period, says there is absolutely no evidence of an "eye of the needle" gate in Jerusalem." --A Non ymous

[edit] Reference in Neal Stephenson's "Baroque Cycle" series

Towards the end of the chapter titled "Off Malta" of book4 ("Bonanza") of The Baroque Cycle, there is a reference to a "needle's eye." This is on page 244 of the softcover "First Harper Perennial Edition" of "The Confusion, " which is volume 2 (books 4 and 5) of the 3-volume series.

Stephenson uses the phrase "needle's eye" as a general term for a doorway in a camel-stable that is designed to allow people free passage while preventing camels from escaping. The scene takes place in late 17th-century Cairo. Does anyone know whether this is, or has become, a standard usage of the term? And if so, is this usage known to derive from, predate, or to be otherwise genetically related to the earlier, more well-known usages mentioned by the article? Or is it one of Stephenson's many creative historical fabrications?

[edit] Contextual Meaning of Eye of a Needle

It is also important to note, that in Hebrew culture of the time of Christ, the "Eye of a Needle" also refers to doors that lay beside the main Gates in the city wall. At night main gates were closed to stop people from rampaging in and out of a city, but you did not wish to keep travelers completely barred from the city, thus when looking at most gates of the period you will see two smaller doors to either side of the main gate, these were left open and guarded at night. When a traveler needed in or out of the city, his camel would actually drop down on its knees and crawl through the smaller doors called "eyes of needles".

So you say. But there is apparently no credible evidence for this, or any evidence that the term 'eye of a needle' might have been used for such a thing. Jooler 02:43, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] prove a negative?

Neither does there seem to be any evidence that such gates did not exist. - Nor any evidence that talking dragons didn't exist either. Honestly who put this in here? Jooler 02:43, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The stupid gate theory

Why is this even added in here? That little theory was conjured up by people who felt uncomfortable with being wealthy and Christian or who wanted to attain wealth and remain a Christian. Point is, there is no evidence for this strange gate BECAUSE the Isrealites were not stupid enough to build a tiny gate where they had to shove their giant camels through. Inf fact if their little gate explanation is true then it wouldn't fit into the remaining verse about how with God all things are possible. The point of the parrable is that it is supposed to be impossible not improbable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.239.201.69 (talk) 05:09, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

The fact is that this story is so widespread that I was taught it as fact in my Religious Education lessons. It is important to tell people that this theory has no historical backing (as the wikipedia article here does), but one could hardly make such a claim on a wikipedia article without explaining the theory itself first. Oddly enough I came to this article especially to see whether the wiki article mentioned it and whether it noted its lack of historical backing, and I've been very pleased to see that it met my high expectations on both counts. :) 26 April 2008

[edit] Secular interpretation

Um... how is the so-called secular interpretation secular? I think maybe you need to either include it in the 'alternative interpretations' rather than giving it a section to itself, or you need to change its name. There's nothing secular about it. 26th April 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.68.193.6 (talk) 15:53, 26 April 2008 (UTC)