Talk:Evangelical Church in Germany

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Does "Evangelical" really conform to "Protestant"? My understanding was the "Evangelical" generally referred to Lutheran Churches. john k 20:35, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC) We have to know that the word "Evangelical" has different meanings in the various countries GLGerman 22:46, 18 September 2006 (UTC) In Germany it belongs to "Protestant" Churches (Reformed/United/Lutheran), but it can also mean that it is a conservative movement in differenet protestant churches in GermanyGLGerman 22:46, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong Title

I'm German, and I know that evangelisch means "protestant", not "evangelical". So the article needs to be shiftet to the correct designation Protestant Church in Germany

The German word for "evangelical" is evangelikal, a borrowing from English that replaced the older pietistisch. -- 84.190.133.138 19:22, 9 December 2006 (UTC) --Weidner-Kim(at)bigfoot.com

That´s not true. In German "evangelical" means conservative protestant view for a protestant movement since the beginning of the 20.th century and not a Replacement of "pietismus". We have also today the word "pietistisch" in geman language and the word means not the same as german word "evangelikal". GLGerman 05:19, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

"Evangelical" in English has two different senses. One of them means more or less "Protestant." See, for instance, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada. Evangelisch should not be translated "Protestant" in a proper name. German protestant churches, or protestant churches in a German tradition, are called "Evangelical" in English. john k 23:00, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

so that´s interesting: the word "evangelical" in English has two different senes ? Good to know in german language.GLGerman 05:19, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Problems with correct translation: Meaning of word "evangelical" in English and "evangelikal" in German and word "evangelisch" in German

[edit] German language

• "protestantisch"=the sense is protestant
• "evangelisch"= the sense is protestant or the word "evangelical" in the sense of "protestant"
• "evangelikal"= the sense is a conservative, protestant movement since the beginning of 20th century
• "pietistisch"=the sense is pietism and not a conservative movement since the beginning of 20th century

[edit] English Language

• "protestant"=the sense is the german word "protestantisch" or the german word "evangelisch"
• "Pietism"=the sense is the german word "pietistisch"
• "Evangelical"=the sense is the german word "evangelical" and means a conservative movement since 20th century or the sense of the german words "evangelisch" and "protestantisch"

German "Evangelisch" in a proper name should be, and usually is, translated as "Evangelical". john k 16:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

As one can see when following the link to the German protestant churches website, they call themselves in the "copyright notice" the "Evangelical Church of Germany" while speaking on the same page of "Protestant member churches in Germany". To me "evangelical" always carries the sense of "evangelikal" with it, i.e. the conservative right wing. But who am I to tell them how they have to translate themselves to english?--L.Willms 15:46, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I think the "Note on the term Evangelical in German usage" makes this difficulty sufficiently clear. There is only one sentence in this paragraph that might be a problem: "It can thus be considered a united church." You better not let any of the Lutheran or Reformed EKD member churches hear that you consider the EKD to be a "united church", or you're gonna be in trouble! Anna (talk) 23:48, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Just decided to erase that sentence myself. As the beginning of the article correctly states, the "Evangelical Church in Germany... is a FEDERATION of 23 regional Lutheran, Reformed and United Protestant churches", not a Lutheran, Reformed or United church body in itself. Anna (talk) 16:21, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Inconsistency

For some reason, in the list of member churches, Evangelisch is sometimes being translated as "Protestant," and sometimes as "Evangelical." It seems to me that we ought to be consistent about it. Given the location of this article, I've changed it so that they're all called "Evangelical". Obviously, this is Evangelical in the German sense, where it basically means protestant, but given that there are churches in the Anglophone world that use "Evangelical" in the same sense as the German "Evangelische," (e.g. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America), I think we ought to translate more literally. john k 01:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Apostolic Church = Protestant??

I am a bit confused about the New Apostolic Church being listed among the Protestant churches. I am not really sure about its origins, but as far as the current situation (in Germany at least) is concerned, they do not participate in any Protestant or ecumenical conferences (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeitsgemeinschaft_Christlicher_Kirchen_in_Deutschland, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Council_of_Churches#Members), and mutual recognition remains difficult. Official information and evaluation of the New Apostolic Church by the "Evangelische Zentralstelle für Weltanschauungsfragen" here: http://www.ekd.de/ezw/dateien/EZW_KI_NAK_10_2006.pdf. Anna (talk) 23:29, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

christians who are neither catholic nor orthodox are generally seen as protestants —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.225.232 (talk) 15:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

This seems a bit unsatisfactory to me. For one thing, the New Apostolic Church, to the best of my knowledge, has its roots much more in the Catholic church, plus some extras of their own.

More importantly though, the Wikipedia definition of Protestantism states that "Protestantism encompasses the forms of Christian faith and practice that originated with the doctrines of the Reformation", which is certainly not true for the New Apostolic church. Particularly if by definition a Protestant church "holds that biblical scripture (rather than tradition or ecclesiastic interpretation of scripture) is the only source of revealed biblical truth", this certainly does not apply to the New Apostolic church with its interpretational office of the apostle. Anna (talk) 15:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)