Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2007

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[edit] Archives

[edit] Exact Semi-Final Results

Does anyone know when the exact results from the semi-final will be published? I mean, which country in the semi-final got the most votes, who got second most votes, etc.

Thanks!

DJ Dritt 13:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

After final i think Smooth O 17:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
It will be released after the Final with the Final results table. Then all the Easten Europe vs Western Europe can hopefully be settled...¡иąтнąи! | Talk | Email| 18:57, 11 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Polls

Are there any polls or something?

I hear they're mass-betting on who will win, and the amount of interest is larger for those who "probably won't pass" and very little for the "winning ones"... --PaxEquilibrium 00:29, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Voting System

This year, more than other years the Eurovision Song Contest was biased by the fact that the votes all returned to countries that come from the Eastern block. This is the first time that is evident so much that all viewers of the show knew what had happened. There were a total of ten qualifiers as required. Almost all countries (instead Turkey) make part of the Eastern block. Countries like Cyprus, Malta, Netherlands, Denmark, Andorra, Poland, Austria and also Switzerland (this country was predicted to be the winner of this year's edition) didn't reach to qualify.

As seen from the leading Eurovision fan website, esctoday.com, the Iceland singer stated that he has no chance to compete again in the Eurovision because first thought that anyone can win this year's contest but doubts cropped because of the eastern european dominance. Some countries like Cyprus and Switzerland are threating to withdrew from the competition while the Maltese Head of Delegation, Robert Abela said that if the EBU does not do anything there will be a chance that they will halt their Eurovision experience for a year until something suitable will be adapted.

Chrisportelli 07:11, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Not true. German watchblog bildblog.de made a recount counting only the votes of western countries. It turned out that the first five would have been the same, had only western european countries voted. This includes Serbia winning. Maybe it's time to consider that the eastern european countries just sent better songs this year.


  • Obvously having more free time than I should, I have calculated what would happen if only certain countries had right to vote. I considered every country east of Finland-Germany-Austria-Italy (except Greece) to be Eastern European - please do not take offense or debate this, it's just a provisional thing... Also, I didn't put Israel anywhere, as I don't think it can be considered either Western or Eastern European country.
Position EU-151 EU-272 Western Europe3 Eastern Europe4 Actual vote
1st Place Turkey Serbia Serbia Serbia Serbia
2nd Place Serbia Ukraine Turkey Russia Ukraine
3rd Place Ukraine Russia Ukraine Ukraine Russia
4th Place Bulgaria Bulgaria Hungary Belarus Turkey
5th Place Armenia Turkey Bulgaria Bulgaria Bulgaria
3rd last FYR Macedonia United Kingdom France Ireland France
2nd last France* France FYR Macedonia United Kingdom* United Kingdom
Last Place Ireland* Ireland* Ireland* Sweden* Ireland

1 - EU-15 countries except Italy and Luxembourg, who do not participate.
2 - EU-27 countries except Italy, Luxembourg and Slovakia, who do not participate.
3 - Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Malta, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, The Netherlands, United Kingdom.
4 - Albania, Armenia, Belarus, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, FYR Macedonia, Georgia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Montenegro, Poland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovenia, Turkey, Ukraine.
(*) - Nil points. Meelosh 17:52, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

This table does not show the fact that only 7 Western European nations had acts that could be voted for in the final (Greece is geographically in Eastern Europe). Eastern Europe had 17. Over twice as many. You can't vote for a nation's act if it's not competing in the final. Eastern European acts therefore had a greater statistical chance of picking up votes simply by showing up at the final. The reason why - each country has to list a total of 10 votes (1 to 8, then 10 and 12). With only 7 Western European acts competing, 3 alotted votes would have to go to Eastern Europe regardless if that country alotted every single one of its vote to a Western European country. Hence three Eastern European countries would each time be guaranteed to pick up votes, from either East or West, regardless of their voting order. If you want a fairer system, there should be 17 Western European countries in the final to match the 17 Eastern European countries or only 7 Eastern European countries to match the 7 Western European entries in the final, and you and I both know that's not going to happen under current Eurovision rules. MegX 01:58, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
What would really make it a lot fairer is if they scrap the 'Big Four' idea and make UK, Germany, Spain and France (note these are all Western European countries) compete in the Semi-final. The majority of people are not going to vote for these countries, as long as it is written into the rules that they can technically cheat every year. ~~ Peteb16 09:21, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
You do know that the Big Four practically finance the competition, don't you? Will (We're flying the flag all over the world) 14:19, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Of course, but I don't see why that should interfere with the rules of the contest. It's a song contest, Countries should progress into the final based on the merit of their songs not on the wealth of the country's broadcasters. Plus, if things carry on as they are, I suspect these countries may realise that it may not make financial sense to pile money into a competition they're unlikely to win. ~~ Peteb16 14:59, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
They actually finance the EBU, not the competition itself - host broadcaster pays for this, by rule with help of sponsors and local government. Also, I do believe it's fair to have some kind of advantage if you're one of the biggest contributors, and thus, have no problem whatsoever with Big 4 rule. However, Peteb16 is right when saying it can create animosity and sense of injustice - so, perhaps, it could be beneficial to Big 4 not to use their earned right to compete in the final only. Their call, as far as I'm concerned. Also, these financial contributions are to EBU, not ESC, and EBU is not only about ESC - which means that this funding is not in danger of being cancelled. Meelosh 17:50, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, I could've made another table showing that the semi-final Top 5 would have been more or less the same if only Western European countries voted. Actually, Western vote would exclude Belarus with their James-Bond-wannabe song, but include your typical Eastern country - Bulgaria. (Also, Greece really cannot be considered Eastern European - geographically, it's Southern European country, but is considered to be Western due tu cultural and economic ties to the west. It would be like putting Finland in the east because Poland is actually on their west). The fact remains that Portugal, Denmark, Poland and Iceland would have been in the final (instead of Belarus, Georgia, FYROM and Moldova), have only the western countries voted. EU-27 would have included only Andorra and Iceland.
I don't really understand why it would be fair to match the equal number of entries from the west and from the east? Until the 90's, Yugoslavia was the only eastern country to participate in the ESC, however, it still won. Even today, votes from the west would have put Serbia in the first place, and you don't get that by giving out 1, 2 or 3 leftover points. And, actually, there are 24 eastern and 17 western countries, so eastern countries would have to eliminate more by default, that doesn't seem very fair. Finally, if you think that eastern vote is unfair, this wouldn't have solved anything, since there would be quite enough eastern countries in the final (either 7, 12 or 17) in order for one of them to necessarily win.
Indulge this - East cares about ESC a lot and sends the best they have. I know for a fact that several countries in the east have really strong national competitions and that the artists selected to represent their countries are by rule among top 10 performers in their country. And who do the British send? I'm sure we all know (and like) British music far better than Serbian and that this country gave dozens if not hundreds of world-class performers and superstars. But where are they? If they send their third-rate band (and a third rate song), don't expect it to beat east's top of the line - they/we are not that hopeless.
However, I do believe that 50-50 vote by jury and televote is a nice proposal. Serbian national competition is like this, and I find it a good filter for songs that are too ethnic, trashy and could be popular only in the national level - and this could all apply on ESC (Ukraine coming 2nd is a pretty nice example of what would not happen). But would that stop these allegations, except if juries voted only for the western nations? Erecting a kind of iron curtain between the west and the east would just create animosity and strenghten the existing voting blocks. But even with them, only the song recognized by the west and the east stands a chance of winning - just look at points that Serbia received. Yes, Turkey is more or less guaranteed Top-15, Greece and Cyprus have 12 points to begin with, Balkan and ex-USSR countries are likely to get at least 6 points from all of their neighbours, as well as the Nordic countries are - but that does not come nearly close to qualifying for the final, let alone winning the competition or getting into Top 5. Meelosh 11:12, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Meelosh, "I don't really understand why it would be fair to match the equal number of entries from the west and from the east?" I was just making a point that the exercise in which side of Europe could be fairly compared would be if there was an equal number of acts from both Eastern and Western Europe. If there was an act from Western Europe which wasn't at this final but was in a hypothetically alternate one, whose to know that it couldn't have altered the voting and thus final outcome? Certainly if there were more than 10 acts, as I've mentioned with the current voting system set-up, the odds would be reduced considerably. Andorra, Switzerland, and Denmark both were quoted before the semi-final at having a good chance of actually winning it but didn't. I wasn't surprised that the audience booed the semi-final result btw. Again it is difficult to compare what would have happened because as it eventuated history took a different course. This is not to say that Serbia didn't have a great song because it did. Probably one of the best entries in a long time. Greece btw has a long history of giving most of it votes to Cyprus and Balkan countries in previous Eurovisions. Again that bloc voting thing. And I'm with you on the United Kingdom statement. Terrible song rehashing a tired idea. MegX 03:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


I feel compelled to add to this discussion one more item for the debate. If you study the votes from some Western Europe countries, you see that Spain has been giving 12 points to Romania for three years, at least, and Germany has been giving 12 to Turkey for a few more years. The immigrants living in Western Europe who come from those countries vote for their countries of origin, and that "invalids" the rule that keeps you from voting for your own country. Then, of course Eastern Countries would have filled top positions if only Western countrie shad voted, because Eastern people living in Western Europe vote for them. Besides the fact that there may be some more sympathy for the songs of the Slavic Countries in those nations, we must consider that people in Eastern Europe are widely spread around their neighbouring countries. Hence, there are many Russian people in Ukraine, Belarus... Many Serbian people in Croatia, and so on. I do not mean that this is bad. Of course those people love their countries and want to express it voting for them in the ESC. But that makes the voting system very unfair for performers. There were songs that, I think, deserved to be in the Final Round, such as "Salvem el món", from Andorra. It was a brand new style for the ESC, and it would have refreshed its image. But there are not many immigrants from Andorra anywhere aruond Europe, so this country can never collect the support of its own people. But, I must say, that I felt happy about Serbia's victory. It was my personal choice. But I also consider that Ukraine did not deserve the second place. There were many unfair situations this year, mainly in the Semi-Final Round. I do not think that many of the Slavic and Balkanic songs that made their way to the Final deserved it more than Andorra, Malta or Cyprus, for instance. And by the way, this is another example of why the voting system should be modified. The 12 points exchange between Greece and Cyprus is getting sort of shamefully blatant. EuroFerni, June 1, 2007

[edit] How will the votes be presented?

Will the votes be presented in the same way as last year (1-7 automatically, then the spokeperson says 8, 10 and 12) or something different? In my opinion, spokeperson should read votes 6 and 7 too, it isn't boring to me. In the new way, it's hard to keep the track of the score table. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bosco adventure (talk • contribs) 07:31, 12 May 2007 (UTC).

From what I understand, they only read the top votes to reduce the length of the show. See Voting_at_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest. Can you imagine 240 votes read individually, or... (how many countries) x (all mentioning each other). That's why it's reduced. And also why there's now the semi-final. Westleyd 23:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Colors in map - I'm getting blind

A map is very useful, but with this colors you get blind, they are much too bright. Those who are in the finale should have more satiation, the others should have less, also the water. The first map is obsolete to me. Could this be changed, please... --Abe Lincoln 18:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Points reps

What's the name of the Swedish points presenter guy? Lady BlahDeBlah 21:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

André Pops —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xhandler (talk • contribs) 22:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC).

His name is André Pops, he is a famous programleader of a show called "Lilla sportspegeln" in Sweden. Here is a link for one of his performances: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKay5pr4i_A&mode=related&search=

[edit] Bloc voting

Is anyone going to make a mention of the bloc voting? It'd need to be carefully worded, but I think the Eastern European/Baltic/Scandinavian voting blocs warrant a mention. Anyone else agree, or am I just being sour? Hawker Typhoon 22:44, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

It definitely should be mentioned in the article. --Emx 22:46, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I'd leave it out - it's not exactly news. And I'm still convinced it's not entirely politics, but more similar tastes and cultural backgrounds.87.189.210.238 23:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I think its worth a mention. Its the cause of a lot of complaints from Western-European countries. Whether the complaints are "correct" or not. It is something worth mentioning. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.83.254.201 (talk) 17:26, 13 May 2007 (UTC).
I agree that it's similar tastes - Romania & Moldova for example. But could we link to where "Regional block voting" is mentioned on the overall Voting_at_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest page, then update that section to include this year's honorable mentions? Westleyd 23:58, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I hate the bloc voting, I'm not saying the Serbian song wasn't bad, it was good. But if it had been lets say Portugal who had it... It probably wouldn't have won, right? Thx 2 .fi .is .no .dk for Sweden points HEHE --chandler 00:29, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
If it's mentioned, it needs to be pointed out that this has been going on for long, it's not something that was invented by Eastern European countries. Here in Sweden, you hear people saying that these countries are more or less destroying the whole thing with bloc voting, while we ourselves have been gladly accepting high scores from the other Scandinavian countries for as long as I can remember.
My personal opinion is that much of this is coming from being bad losers, and that there's also a pinch of looking down on what is still perceived as 'Europe B': "stupid poor dirty drunk backward farmers who won't vote for the same ABBA rip off we're sending every year!" Sorry for the rant, but this attitude is really, really getting on my nerves. The Legend of Julie Egbert 20:34, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

what I find interesting is the all other 5 former Yugoslavs voted for Serbia. Kudos to them for recognising a great song despite everything that has happened in the past. People are strong, much braver than their leaders.
Parrisia 20:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

The voting in this particular contest appears to have been glaringly and seriously flawed, as it appears to be based on voting blocks, rather than merit. It is noticeable how Norway and Denmark voted for Sweden and the Balkan states all voted for one another, by way of two examples. The whole thing also appears to have been hijacked by the East Europeans, who occupy the top 17 positions. In the bottom seven positions, 6 (six) are West European countries. This speaks for itself. To reduce this bias, countries should not only be barred for voting for themselves, but also barred from voting for neighbouring countries.

Nothing to do with sore losers (I'm neither from Western or Eastern Europe). Bloc voting has been an increasingly serious problem for the Eurovision format and this has been mentioned for years on television, mockingly so by commentator Terry Wogan, so it's not a new thing. Since the breakup of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, the voting patterns however have shifted mostly to Eastern Europe. This can easily be demonstrated by viewing the voting tallys. The last seven positions on this years voting table (with the exception of Lithuania) are occupied by Western nations. Unheard of in the history of Eurovision. While those in Serbia and many other Eastern European countries may rejoice, it's long term effect will ultimately stiffle the contest and kill the concept, which was about uniting Europe, not dividing it. MegX 03:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Whoever says there is no bloc voting is such a hypocrit. Just look at Turkey who finished what, 4th? With a hideous song and performance. They have been receiving high points every year because Turkish people have emigrated all over, definitely not because they are good. Look at Germany's voting: every single year they have been giving them 12 points, except last year which was "only" 10. Scandinavian countries might have been bloc voting all the time, but not to this degree and it had no big effect on the show, but because Eastern countries seriously outnumber them, the problem has become huge, and with the additions of all those small countries even farther to the east (what' next, Japan?), things will get worse. Look at that nice color map, the red is all on the right side of the map! This is not about sore losers, it'a all about eastern countries voting themeselves. Even the western countries voted them, because probably they are the only ones voting (the emigrates living in the west). Bring back the juries and this is sooo worth mentioning in the article as it has reached its zenith this year. Dollvalley 08:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Why do we let countries in the far west, like Ireland and Iceland, participate? What's next, Canada? The Legend of Julie Egbert 23:27, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Iceland is a European country, as is Ireland - Ireland use the Euro, and Iceland isn't that far west of the UK. Will (We're flying the flag all over the world) 23:31, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, they're European. Just as European as Georgia and Armenia, which was the point I was trying to make. The Legend of Julie Egbert 11:50, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Since when are Georgia and Armenia European countries? and then, just AS European as Ireland and Iceland??? hahhaha, oh dear. Well when I studies geography at school in the 80s Ireland and Iceland were, guess what? European countries. We had never heard of Armenia and Georgia as being European countries. Aren't you a bit biased miss legend whatever!
The fact is, bloc voting has taken a huge surge since Yugoslavia and the USSR fragmented. Because Yugoslavia and Russia are effectively six and twelve countries, at least 20% of their votes will be Bloc votes. Will (We're flying the flag all over the world) 14:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't think anyone's denying this. Several groups of countries are obviously voting for each other, and this is mentioned in the article. I still think this had a minor effect on the final outcome, though. There's an interesting chart a bit up on this talk page, showing that if you only count Western European votes, the Top 5 remains the same.
Anyway, I have no problem with people who may think it had more than a minor effect. I do however have a problem with people who use this discussion to make general anti-Eastern Europe comments, as I felt Dollvalley did above. Hence my sarcastic remark. The Legend of Julie Egbert 19:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Oh please put a lid on it, I did not make anti->eastern remarks, maybe you are the one who feels they are dirt-poor as you put it. I feel that they are the ones submitting some of the best songs, but they also submit supercrap and they still end up in the final because of blocvoting, and because the number of eastern europe countries is growing in the contest they have a much bigger upper hand. there is no denying this. I am personally happy they are using the contest to get exposition and awareness in the world, altho I am sure that is not their intention. They want to win, they want neighbors to win. That is the worst kind of voting possible and it is plain WRONG. I fear i am the only one voting what I think was the best song.

They are not being fair at all. And might I point out that the contest is what it is thanks to the biggest contributors financial-wise, and the eastern countries are making their best to make them lose interest and make this the Eastern Eurovision Song Contest.Dollvalley 09:50, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

The table does not show the fact that only 7 Western European nations had acts that could be voted for in the final (Greece is geographically in Eastern Europe). Eastern Europe had 17. Over twice as many. You can't vote for a nation's act if it's not competing in the final. Eastern European acts therefore had a greater statistical chance of picking up votes simply by showing up at the final. The reason why - each country has to list a total of 10 votes (1 to 8, then 10 and 12). With only 7 Western European acts competing, 3 alotted votes would have to go to Eastern Europe regardless if that country alotted every single one of its vote to a Western European country. Hence three Eastern European countries would each time be guaranteed to pick up votes, from either East or West, regardless of their voting order. If you want a fairer system, there should be 17 Western European countries in the final to match the 17 Eastern European countries or only 7 Eastern European countries to match the 7 Western European entries in the final, and you and I both know that's not going to happen under current Eurovision rules. MegX 01:58, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I must say, that sometimes we really cooperate when voting, but it is not the only reason. Let's examin the Balkan peninsula. I'm a Bulgarian. Bulgarians claim that Macedonia is Bulgarian and if Macedonians start to show that they are true Bulgarians we will always vote for them with 12 points. The people in Cyprus do not have this problem, because they are Greeks, and it's the smae with Moldova and Romania :) Serbia and Montenegro were really close too, Macedoians and Serbs too. But then there comes something strange... Bulgarians and Greeks have never been close, but united in their voting /maybe because former yougoslav republics united/. Serbs and Croats hate each other /form what i know/, but Croats gave Serbia 12 points.... Things are just strange. Maybe we are trying to get over our past :/ However, even when over 10% of Bulgarian population are Turks, all Balkan nations have negative oppinion about Turks /they rulled us for a long period/... Therefore there weren't many votes from our countries. However, the Turkish song was my favourite :) and i must say, that most of our popular songs in the 2000s are stolen from Serbians, but we didn't gave them 12 points ... see how complicated it is? . And at the end of all that... it's your fault that everything is like that. If Western Europeans had helped us earlier there wouldn't be countries like Cyprus, Macedonia, Bosna and Herz. or Moldova nowadays! And there wouldn't have been Bulgarian minorities in Greece, Romania, Serbia, Ukraine, or Albanian in Macedonia, Hungarians in Romania, Turks in Bulgaria... (82.199.193.217 20:30, 15 May 2007 (UTC)yavor)

[edit] Semi final points

I don't see a reference to that the points from the semi final have been official. The Eurovision page is terrible though, impossible to find anything there. In a way, it's amazing things like this almost come first on Wikipedia. :) - Jetro 23:01, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why was Finland upset over Russian votes?

So, I'm watching the show online from here in the states, and I don't know what all the fuss was about when Russia would get "boo"d for 12 point votes. I thought there was a comment from one of the countries giving results about a hockey game? I know they were in a hockey stadium, but is there anything more to it? From the States, I don't hear nearly enough about all of Europe's political/social conflicts, mostly just those affecting ... well, the Big4. Westleyd 23:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Eastern Europe is still recovering from War Time Europe, especially the Cold War, so much of East Europe vote for neighbours and the so called Bear, Russia to keep the peace. Generally, Northern and Western Europe are unhappy as at present "Block Voting" is taking place. -- Chris as I am Chris 00:15, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Well they boo'd that the "east-bloc" only votes for the east-bloc, and they have done that since they joined the competition. Think it was the same thing the last time it was hold in a west/north-bloc country. For ex. Slovenia gave Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia 12-10-8 points (don't remember the order of the points for each country though)... Its probably because so many Serbs, Bosnians etc. live in other parts of Fr. Yugoslavia. Same thing with most of the Soviet states. --chandler 00:34, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I believe Finland won against Russia in hockey and finns were upset that Russia had more points then Finland, but maybe I'm wrong. DVoit 03:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Because their song sucked? No way it deserved 12 points from anyone!  Grue  07:09, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Many finns have still negative feelings about Russia, especially now because of the Bronze Soldier of Tallinn -thing. I was surprised when Estonia gave 12 points to Russia. People also didn't like when many ex-soviet states gave all the highest points to Russia and neighboring countries. I'm finn myself. 62.78.227.229 08:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
You are forgetting that Estonia has a large russian minority DVoit 10:30, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes its the same with ex-soviet states and Yugoslavian, they're very spread out... which gives them a big, big advance, Is almost as if every country split up in 5-10 parts... they would get votes from eachother too —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xhandler (talk • contribs) 10:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC).
In fact, as a Finn I guess that the booing is because of the recent situation in Estonia, where the authorities of Estonia decided to move a statue commemorating russian soldiers. Many Finns think that Russia has reacted in an inapproppriate and perhaps imperialistic way, although there are many who also think that Estonia did not handle the statue issue very appropriately either. This is just one link that gives some insight on this unfortunate development http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1763607.ece Sunherd , 14:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] trivia - Lordi

I can't find any precise info on previous running orders, but isn't it the case that Lordi's (last year's winners) opening the show is unusual? I don't remember it having happened before. Anyone know/remember? 82.13.83.244 23:56, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

No, If I remember correctly the previous years winners always open with their winning song.

Laconia 00:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

heh, ok, maybe it's just that Lordi has been the most memorable participant for some time 82.13.83.244 00:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scoreboard

The scoreboard needs some major work. Please see Eurovision 2006 for an example. All these have to look alike, as it is part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Eurovision. Can someone fix the 2007 one? Greekboy 06:34, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

don't know if someone is updating... but here's a complete score sheet http://www.eurovision.tv/addons/scoreboards/2007/final.html --chandler 07:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I spent a lot of time converting the HTML table to 'Wikitable' CSS code yesterday, this should be the norm. Since then the scores have been updated, but someone has reordered all the countries alphabetically. Whether this should be done for all previous years should be decided on concensus, but the HTML is definately unecessary and adds about 20,000 characters to each article. ~~ Peteb16 10:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Because it's much more easy just to copy in all the scores from http://www.eurovision.tv/addons/scoreboards/2007/final.html I put them in the order shown there. --chandler 12:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Makes sense, but does everyone else agree and should we do this for all the tables? ~~ Peteb16 14:09, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
No. It should be ordered by running order, then the draw for voting. They did the draw for a reason, and since it is the scoreboard, I think it should be in it. Greekboy 16:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I think it should be ordered by the voting order (from Montenegro to Hungary) not alphabetical. Mb731 17:25, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] England =22?

I might be wrong but wasn't England joint 22nd with France? It's down at the moment that France was 22nd and England was 23rd. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.132.199.219 (talk) 11:59, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

no look here http://www.eurovision.tv/addons/scoreboards/2007/final.html it states it clear... --chandler 12:18, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Most likely because France was voted for by more countries than the UK. ~~ Peteb16 14:11, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No Moldovan spokesperson?

Who was the Moldovan presenter? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.217.94.191 (talk) 12:44, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

There may not have been a Moldovan presenter. Along with Albania, Armenia and Georgia, Moldova is not listed to have had a commentator for the contest this year. This is not a rare occurrence at all. Often the countries that do not wish to pay for their own commentary use other broadcasters' instead, such as the BBC.
Lunarwhisper 22:17, 13 May 2007 (GMT)

[edit] Wrong flag for winners

Did anyone notice that the interactive flag used when Serbia was singing and when they had won was actually the Croatian flag. Yet in the score table; the correct flag for Serbia was shown. Why couldn't this flag mix-up be rectified before Serbia won the competition. I hope Eurovision noticed this error.

Freddieandthedreamers 13:03, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I am quite certain the flag used was the Serbian flag in all cases. Though the two flags are fairly similar, the crests are different and the stripes are also different. I am quite certain the heart logos used in the contest did show this, though I do not have a video to prove this.
Lunarwhisper 22:20, 13 May 2007 (GMT)
I did record it and can confirm that it was the Serbian flag, and the stage background was always red. AxG ҈ ►talk 21:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
The BBC "Sing-A-Long" wrongly showed Croatian flag (and song title), but I assume (from the previous comment) that the real graphics didn't. Joel i 17:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I know for certain that it was the Croatian flag shown on the BBC "Sing-A-Long" in the heart logo. The flag of Serbia is very different as there is a different colour sequence and the crest has no red and white checkers. Both crests are in differnt positions on their flags! 86.135.150.158 17:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] We should make a paragraph or article about the voting system pros and cons

Concerning that it is a competition between countries, it's impossible to avoid the political friendly vote, even that we hear all these controversies all the time. The rule that you can't vote for your own country is obvious. There are 2 ways of counting the votes: in absolute total values at the european level but the results announcing show will be missing and bigger countries would have a more significant voting role, or the actual system (each country giving points depending on an hierarchy of votes - as it is now -, or, maybe, according to the percentages, but it's a lot more complicated and this encourages voting in just one direction for a higher percentage).

I resume the voting system in this way: each of the 24 countries in the Final has designated a representative as a music competitor who has to vote for his opponents (best 10 of 23 receive points), but his vote is given by his country audience.

The only thing we need to discuss is that is better or not allowing just the countries involved in SF, respectively F to vote and not all of them in both cases. The problem is just financially, but it is in opposition with the correctness of the competition. The best solution is just the countries involved to be allowed to vote! You can vote in both SF and F if your country qualifies from SF to F, only in SF if it doesn't, only in F if it is directly qualified in F. The SF to F countries will not be in such a great advantage as they are now, due to the fact that there will be just 10 of 28 countries to vote them the second time and 14 new ones! The political vote between countries will be at a minimum possible!

Daniel77o 20:20, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


It would probably make more sense to get the voting over with at the start of the show, then play the songs :-) 160.84.253.241 07:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

LOL, yes it might even make for a better show. The losing singers might improvise a more entertaining and more original performance ;) 62.2.236.130 13:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serbia's backing vocalists

OK we know her name is Marija Serifovic. Can anyone give us the names of the Serbian dynamites that have also appeared on stage?
Parrisia 20:53, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Bottom right corner of this [1] page. Meelosh 12:02, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] UK in 22nd place

Look the way they seperate tied countries is number of 12 points awarded (see 1991 Sweden-France), NOT on number of countries - the UK received 1 12 points, France none,therefore the UK came 22nd, ahead of France. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.152.195.165 (talk) 20:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

But the offical site makes the UK at 23rd (See bottom of page. --AxG 20:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

There is an Extract of the Rules on the official site which states that ties are settled by number of votes before number of 12-point votes.

Rules:

The winner of the Grand Final is the song that has obtained the most points at the end of the voting procedure. Should there be a tie for first place in the Grand Final, the winner shall be the song which has obtained points from the highest number of countries. If the tying songs received votes from the same number of countries, then the highest number of 12-point scores shall be decisive.

212.44.93.210 05:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

If the tying songs received votes from the same number of countries - France received five votes, UK two. Everyone except BBC News, IIRC, gives the UK as either 23rd or second-to-last. Even eurovision.tv gives UK as 23rd. Will (We're flying the flag all over the world) 03:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Relevance

I just found out what this thing is cause it appeared in the main page. Is this really that important, compared to other world events? It's just a tv show. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Krazykenny (talk • contribs) 23:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

Few events are truly world events. I think the Super Bowl was featured too, and that's a sporting event in just one country.JdeJ 01:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
You did not know what Eurovision was until now? I thought near enough everyone knew OF it, if not what it actually was about? Then again, I only found out a couple of years ago... :) Gammondog

[edit] Semi-final controversy

A lot of countries have been upset by the semi final results and are threatening to withdraw in 2008 (Andorra, Ireland, Malta etc) and I don't see any word of the many complaints there have been about the semi-finals and block vote there. I have tried to put a word about the strong regional bias - an Eastern block vote leading to 9 out of the 10 spots for the final going - but this has been removed. I don't know why, because this is a fact. Hektor 06:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

The information as fact can be seen from the voting results and the map (like, except Estonia and Lithunia, none of the "eastern" countries voted for any "western" song). The question is if the point needs to be stressed in the text, and I'd say yes, because this controversy (by fact) exists, can not be ignored and can initiate changes to the whole system. This not only concerns the "eastern block", but also ridiculous oddities like Malta giving 12 points to the by far worst song of the contest, namely UK - oh wait! It's the same country? Now who wonders...

BTW, it should be noted that the Serbian song actually WAS a worthy winner, that had nothing to do with any conspiration. Our list while watching the tournament was: 1. Serbia 2. Hungary 3. Finland 4. Germany.

Finally, I'd like to note that different taste cannot be the whole reason. The French song was as silly as the Romanian or the Belarus one - but did not get any votes. --212.34.171.12 08:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Fine, but I was talking about the semi-final, not of the end results, which seem quite fair to me (the best song won, even if the other top ten were not the right ones). It seems that the semi-final results have generated such outrage in a few countries that they could pull out of the competition in the future. This controversy, given its consequences, seems notable to me. Hektor 09:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

!!It seems notable to me as well, and we never had so many countries wishing to withdraw, and they were not all countries with bad songs 62.2.236.130 13:32, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New maps

A note to the creator of the new maps that the contest was not won by Serbia and Montenegro; Serbia won it on its own. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 09:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

And by the way, the "After final Map" seems to give the victory to Montenegro, pretending Serbia (th winner) to be unqualified ! 138.231.176.8 12:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean, Serbia is red (1st place) and Montenegro is blue-ish (near last place) in this map? Mtcv 12:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I believe ΚέκρωΨ/Kékrōps meant to point out (correctly) that the first two maps have no border between Serbia and Montenegro, when they should obviously have that border. - MTC 18:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Also I should point out that according to Wikipedia map rules, blue is not supposed to be used to color countries, but only bodies of water. That's why the orig. maps didn't color any blue. Greekboy 18:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Serbian plagiarism?

A Danish newspaper [2] is claiming that the Serbian entry is actually a copy of a 2-year old Albanian song. A comparison video can be found on YouTube [3]. Does anyone have more information about this? Tim (Xevious) 09:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Sour Albanian grapes? ·ΚέκρωΨ· 10:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what exactly "a copy" is, but it doesn't look like a plagiarsm. Many songs look like each others, but these two are not similer enough to call one "a copy of the other". 212.200.100.108 (Darth Vader from sr:wiki) 19:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eurofag- really?

ok so, has wikipedia become so inundated with conservative thought that eurovision is no known as eurofag as it is throughout this article?) 130.88.47.20 14:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Paul de Leeuw

How could he be the Dutch commentator while he announced the points live?--90.224.50.167 17:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Terry Wogan managed it in the UK in 1998 - both commentating, presenting and giving out the points!
I didn't watch in 1998, can you explain how he actually did do all that at once without causing some major presentation problems? I've alway been confused about that. Gammondog 14:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
The above information is incorrect. In 1998, Terry presented on stage with Ulrika Jonsson, Colin Berry announced the UK results (as he did frequently up until 2002) and Ken Bruce commentated. ~~ Peteb16 20:16, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
There were two commentators: Cornald Maas in Helsinki and Paul de Leeuw in the Netherlands. Paul went away for 10-20 minutes to do the points, during which Cornald Maas had to comment on his own. Mtcv 13:54, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Wogan came on then anounced Jonsson and then left to do the commentery. ESC98 OpenWogan Commentory --AxG 20:32, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I conceed, you are correct, BBC Catalogue have Ken Bruce on the list, although I realise now his article here states he was commentator for BBC Radio 2. I'm sure Colin Berry was the vote presenter for many years however. ~~ Peteb16 21:35, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stevan Faddy sung in MOntenegrin!

To whomever keeps changing the lnagauge of Montenegrin song from Montenegrin to Serbian, please stop. In the lyrics, Stevan sings, "Čija si lijepa đevojko?" (Whose are you pretty girl?) needs to know đevojka is the Montenegrin term for "girl" whereas in Serbian it is "devojka" and in Bosnian & Croatian it's "djevojka". Thank you.

The serbs think that all the languages in the former Yugoslavia are serbian.

I agree with you. But you cann't reason with those kind of people. I think that for the time beeing we should try with a compromise and say that he sung in Montenegrin language and Serbian language. In that way everybody can say that they were right. And in the future, when the Constitution of the Republic of Montenegro expresses the will of the Montenegrin nation that the official language is Montenegrin language, well, then nobody will change the language to Serbian any more. -- Imbris 23:14, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vidak Latkovic?

I'm just curious but where did you find information about Montenegro's spokesperson (the person who delivers the points)? Basically I'm asking for the source.

Just browse over the internet.For example on http://www.phpbbserver.com/boumbanaboom/viewtopic.php?mforum=boumbanaboom&t=983&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25&sid=dfca79db8784af6008573b6c5e5fc251&mforum=boumbanaboom forum I found out that He doesn't work for RTV Montenegro any more.He is now a PR of the Ministry of Defence,so It seems that all journalist are leaving TV Montenegro because they are underpaid and take better positions, usually as PR persons in diferent institutions.So he used to be a journalist of RTV Montenegro. You can also watch this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvHDi0P0g0g, because Jana Pakonnen says that his name is Vidak.Ihope this helped.

[edit] Spokespersons

Can I create pages for the spokespersons of the Eurovision Song Contest 2007,because they are highlighted in red.I need help.

[edit] About the scoresheet

Hi, I just wanna tell that the scoresheet is terribly wrong. This said Cyprus gave 12 points to Bulgaria, Iceland to Serbia, etc. Maybe it has been vandalized. (Delgadoloayza 16:55, 18 August 2007 (UTC))

I have already discover the error: someone remove Bulgaria from the list of voting and add Italy (actually Italy do like Eurovision don't exist).