Talk:English country house

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"The" should be dropped from the title: at Wikipedfia it gives an impression of being a book title. Sooner rather than later I'd say. Any objections? --Wetman 22:12, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No objection from me. Thryduulf 22:20, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
None from me. Only problem is.....I set up a redirect from English country house so can we just change it?Giano 22:37, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Done. The word on the street (=on IRC) is, you can move a page to overwrite a redirect provided the redirect hasn't been edited after being created. This is the first chance I've had to test that adage... what do you know, it worked! :-) Bishonen | Talk 22:44, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I didn;t know that either. I was all set to put a request at WP:RM. Thryduulf 22:56, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Aye, that's a good thing to know. Thank you. --Wetman 22:46, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lead image

Although the new lead image goes well with the article, I think its not the right one for the lead. I think the aritcle needs its primary illustration to be of a large, grand, well known country house. Thryduulf 17:00, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I take your point, but the whole point of this page is to be about the smaller lesser known houses (I deliberatly left the image house anonymous), where the rural Squires ran the show, rather than the great palaces where the great and good of the nation spent a couple of months amusing themselves. There is already a Country house page devoted to these wonders, here the emphasis is to be more about social and "country" matters than high architecture. The problem will be finding enough of the lesser known. Perhaps the page needs 'another' name change? but it needs some thought, we can't keep changing it. There is some debate on direction if you are interested in contributing in a collaberation at [1]. Giano 17:19, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
What about moving the page to Manor house, which is quite an undeveloped stub at the moment. Then starting off with the original Great Halls and tracing the expansion and evolution from there? Giano 10:43, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've gone and been bold, and changed the image to something I think captures the caption perfectly, covering both the house and surrounding gardens; it's located in Ireland but is still of the English style, so I don't think that will be a problem. Schcambo (talk) 13:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Please revert. This is a page about ENGLISH houses not Irish. The whole concept was entirely different different. Irish houses were frequently only used as sporting estates by the English aristocracy, they we not retreats from London, and more to the point they were not English. Giano (talk) 14:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
If you'd read the Powerscourt page, firstly you would see that it was permanently occupied by the Viscount Powerscourt, so it was not just a 'retreat' for the English aristocracy. Secondly, it was built in the Palladian style, which was popular in England during the 17th and 18th centuries. Thirdly, it had a place at Country house, which grouped country houses in both Britain and Ireland, until you deleted that page in favor of this one. It is for all respects and purposes a traditional, even stereotypical, English country house, a tradition which did also exist in Ireland due to the Plantations. Schcambo (talk) 14:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I have never deleted any pages anywhere! - Powerscourt is not English! That is all that really matters. It is not a traditional, even stereotypical, English country house, for the simple reason that it is not English! Now, the previous lead image may not have been ideal, and do replace it if you can find better, but please use an English one. Giano (talk) 16:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, you have, you deleted Country house and replaced it with a redirect, here. Also, if these houses are specifically located in England and England alone, then why is there a link to the Scottish National Trust at the bottom of the page? (And I'm not complaining about the link, I think it should be there.) You have to remember, these houses may have been of the English style but they were built throughout the United Kingdom, which did contain Ireland at that time. Schcambo (talk) 17:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Just to add to that point, I actually think this page should be moved over to simply Country house; wouldn't this be the most accurate way of doing things? Schcambo (talk) 17:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Do whatever you feel is best. The page is not deleted all you have to do is lift the redirect, not the same as deleted at all. Move this page, move that page - whatever you want. If you think Powerscourt is a good example of Palladianism why not plonk it in the lead there too? Just help yourself. BTW, I have read Powerscourt one or two errors there, you might like to ckeck out. Giano (talk) 18:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Wow, and here's me trying to assume good faith. Be sarcastic all you want; the most ironic thing is you haven't given me any reasons why Powerscourt isn't a perfect example of a country house - you just seem unable to get past it not being in England. And yeah, as long as there aren't any objections, I think it would be best that this page is moved to simply Country house. Schcambo (talk) 18:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Me! I object. It is important with architectural articles to first define scope lest we find ourselves discussing the nature of the universe within a few pages. Giano here has clearly limited scope to include English country houses and defines them as those not simply of belonging to the aristocracy - which would include a vast number across the then empire - but used in that particular manner, as an alternating alternative to town living in London. We have a very large number of articles at wikipedia, there is surely room for English country house and Irish country house? Both constructions, I assume, derive from subtly different origins and have considerably different histories. Rather than crow-barring your rather nice image and link into here - can I suggest you make a stab at Irish country houses, or undo the redirect at Country house and replace it with the list with main article links to here and Irish country houses? regards --Joopercoopers (talk) 21:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
PS, it is a very nice image though - I'm sure we could find a prominent, appropriate use for it - What camera do you have - I ask because I've just bought my first Nikon SLR and am looking for someone who might be able to advise me on photography. --Joopercoopers (talk) 22:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
If you feel an Irish country house is the best image to lead ENGLISH country house then who am I to object. If that means changing the name of the page just so you can have your pretty picture there then so be it - go ahead. 19:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Giano II (talk • contribs)
Tell me then, what is the difference between, say, Powerscourt and Holkham Hall? If the only reason you can give is that one is in Ireland and one is in England, then I'm pretty sure they should both simply be on a page called Country house. I mean, we don't have English county town, Irish county town, Welsh county town, and Scottish county town, do we? No, because they mean the exact same thing, only they are in different locations. Schcambo (talk) 19:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, for one thing, Powerscourt was the official seat of the Viscount Powerscourt, unlike most English country houses, and it is essentially a renovation of a castle. From the Powerscourt Estate article, it appears that the estate was considerably more than just a country getaway for the landed gentry; it was a recognized seat of power and (at least at one point) a location of military significance, unlike the English country houses described in that article. I do like the photo, but it really doesn't fit in the lead photo position (for this or any other article) - in order to be properly appreciated, it needs more page width than is appropriate at the top of an article. It is well sized in the Powerscourt article. Risker (talk) 23:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Gentry?

Since when were the landed gentry not part of the aristocracy? (ungigned by)User: 71.117.72.146

  • Since the first day a "Gentleman" was allowed to own an estate, live in his own house, ride to hounds, be a magistrate and generally live a comfortable wealthy lifestyle, while at the same time not being a member, or related to any member, of the peerage. Giano | talk 07:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Compton Wynyates.gif

The image Image:Compton Wynyates.gif is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --03:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Image issues addressed. Risker (talk) 02:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)