Talk:Empire of Brazil

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Empire of Brazil was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: November 14, 2006
Peer review Empire of Brazil has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

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[edit] Flag

Why was Image:BrazilEmpireFlag.jpg removed from the article? Wondering, -- Infrogmation 18:42, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Splitting

The part leading to the Independence could be made into a separate article.

Also consider splitting the article into four smaller articles (Independence, First Empire, Regency, Second Empire). Then the original "Empire of Brazil" article could be restored as a short summary of the whole Empire, with pointers to the last three pieces.

All the best,
Jorge Stolfi 04:36, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Division of the Brazilian emperial history

I'm sorry but I really don't have the time to work on this article. In the interest of historical correctness, however, I must point out that this piece has some problems in terms of the correct division of the Brazilian emperial history.

There is no such thing as a "First Empire" and a "Second Empire". Historians are pretty much unanimous to agree that only one empire existed, the Empire. That is divided in two periods: The First Reign and the Second Reign. The former ends with the abdication of Peter I. The latter begins immediately after, but it is divided in two periods: Regency (which is itself divided in two periods: "Regency of One" and "Regency of Three" - would have to double check the English translation for that though) and Peter II's personal rule (which is interrupted in two ocasions: the first and the second regencies of HRH Princess Isabel, during two extended trips that the Emperor took).

Finally, concerning the grammar, if I'm not mistaken, names of monarchs and saints must be translated. Therefore, since this article is in English, "Pedro" should be translated into "Peter", as I have written above (e.g.: In Russia: Peter, the Great).

Regards,

Redux

[edit] Problems

Thanks to 172 for fixing the whole "empire/reign" issue. I would point out that Jorge Stolfi has been renaming many articles concerning Brazilian monarchs to match the "Peter instead of Pedro" issue, a problem I had pointed out a while back in this exact article. Ironically, this seems to be the only article that has escaped Stolfi's effort to correct the names. Maybe someone else who is involved with this article could take care of this?

I will, however, insist that this article still has problems regarding the info. I have noticed some factual errors and incomplete data that sometimes change the actual meaning of some facts. Here is an example:
This problem is at the end of the "Pedro as regent" segment. Peter's decision to stay in Brazil in defiance of the Côrtes orders was brought about by influence of José Bonifácio de Andrada e Silva, his friend and confidant, and the prince's wife, princess Leopoldina. They united to convince Peter to stay, and to accomplish that, they played on Peter's formation as an absolutist prince (and future King), they argued that his father, John VI, had returned to Portugal "in chains", as they put it, and if Peter returned, a similar fate awaited him, and only by staying would he be able to "fulfill his destiny" as an absolute King. That was the basis for Peter's decision to stay. The fear of separatism was present in Bonifácio's mind, not the prince, and "petitions from towns" played absolutely no role in the matter (unless if understood as pressure from regional elites on José Bonifácio to convince the prince, since they feared the return of a direct rule from Lisbon). But even so, the prince was only able to make the decision to stay because of an understanding that he had reached with his father upon the King's return to Portugal, known as the Bragança Agreement. It is more commonly described as instructions from the King to his heir: "I am forced to return and an uncertain destiny awaits me. I leave you here in charge of securing our family's interests. If something should befall me and an illegitimate government (meaning one not led by himself, of course) should take measures opposed to our interests, reenforce your authority and crown yourself King of this land, I shall understand it and support you by whatever means left at my disposal". The agreement was relevant especially because England, the world's leading power then, was obliged by a treaty to recognize only the decisions made by the Head of the House of Bragança in questions regarding the Portuguese Empire (and that's what saved John VI's life in Portugal).

Sorry for the long example, but I hope it helps improving this article.

Regards,

Redux 14:57, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Naming

like all except one or two other articles in Category:Empires . For the Googlees: Brazilian Empire (20k) - Empire of Brazil (12k) Tobias Conradi (Talk) 14:04, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

all other empire articles (except Russia) are named "adjective Empire". See Category:Empires. Any concerns if this is moved to "Brazilian Empire"? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 10:55, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Moved. —Nightstallion (?) 07:55, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
But the thing is called "Empire of Brazil." That's its name. The distinction in Portuguese is pretty clear, and there's no reason not to use a literal translation. john k 04:53, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peer review

History of Portugal (1777-1834) is now being peer reviewed. Please, if you want, go there and state your opinion. Thank you. Gameiro 19:50, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Just to state that it is now a featured article candidate. You can support or oppose here. Thanks. Gameiro 01:48, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Age question

(Comment from 195.93.21.68 on 6 Sept 2005 moved here from Category talk:Wikipedia community forums)

In your article about the Empire of brazil you mention Dom Pedro abdicated in 1831 in favor of his FIVE year old son. You mention the son was crowned in 1841 yet the picture of Dom Pedro II nd's coronation showes him with a very full busy beard - ON A 15 year old!!!

A.P. Dallas

The picture with D. Pedro II with a bushy beard is actually a portrait of him in a session of the Imperial Parliament... not his coronation. :)

[edit] Speedy Failing for GA

As of 14 November 2006, per WP:WIAGA, I make a speedy failing of this article for Good Article status. This article is nice, but alas the whole article is unreferenced. I put the tag in the article to notify editors to put reliable sources to supply all historical facts, claims and figures in this article to support the three pillars of Wikipedia: verifiable, contains no elements of original research and neutral point of view. You may want to read this WP:CITE guidelines. If all of this matters are resolved, this article can be renominated back. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 14:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Slavocracy"

I understand what the word is supposed to mean, but 1) it's not a real English word (to the best of my knowledge), and 2) it is hardly NPOV. Any objections? -- int19h 13:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Troops

"In January 1822, tension between Portuguese troops and the Luso-Brazilians (Brazilians of Portuguese ancestry)"

I do not think this makes sense. The division was not between Brazilian born and Portuguese born. The division was between those who supported the son, D. Pedro, and those who supported the father, King D. João. There were Portuguese and Brazilian born soldiers supporting D. Pedro and there were Portuguese and Brazilian born soldiers supporting D. João. It was a matter of what side one took not wher one was born.

[edit] Brazilian Empire

Shouldnt hte article be called Empire of Brazil instead? It sounds more formal.

Done. I don't know how it ever got to be at Brazilian Empire, which seems to me to misleadingly suggest a colonial empire, rather than a state ruled by an emperor. john k 15:26, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Brazilian Provinces Map

The map is incorrect in what concerns to the actual representation of the Minas Gerais state. Its territories in 1822 were nearly the same as today. The region called Triângulo Mineiro, formerly part of the Goiás state, was incorporated into Minas Gerais in 1816.

[edit] Empire?

Why was this country allowed to claim itself an Empire? Was this ever not recognized? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arthurian Legend (talk • contribs) 17:44, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

Allowed?!? They were and are their own masters! They can call themselves whatever they want! And yes, they were universally recognized as the Empire of Brazil. The Ogre 12:38, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
What Arthurian Legend probably means is this: they never conquered anything, so why did anyone recognize them as an empire? 88.235.147.161 12:34, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

This discussion is pointless. The question is that that was what they called themselves and that that was how other recognized them. India was also the Indian Empire in Victorian times and never conquered others... The Ogre 12:44, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

How can you say it never conquered anything? Check for the changes in the territory from the Empire era to present Brazil. (In fact, these changes started since the Treaty of Tordesilhas, but Brazil was under the rule of Portugal by that time) You'll see that parts of Mato Grosso, Mato Grosso do Sul, Santa Catarina and Rio Grande do Sul states belonged to the neighboring countries. Although most of these additions occurred by means of diplomacy, it doesn't change the fact that Brazil acquired territory during its Empire history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.224.214.240 (talk) 05:01, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

How bout it was called an Empire cause it was ruled by an Emperor?--71.185.193.245 (talk) 14:24, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Violent Purple Bloomers?

"The royal family tended to be a kind of joke. They liked to socialize more than worry about politics and the king and queen were unconcerned about their people. They liked to paint their sheep pink and green and purple, and romp playfully through the gardens in really big bonnets. Their standard dress consisted of pastel garters and violent purple bloomers."

Thing can't be real. Someone's yanking us. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.59.199.179 (talk) 09:08, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Map of the Imperial Provincial Division

The image [1], that portraits the provincial division in the Empire of Brazil, presents a few minor but important mistakes.

Firstly, the city of Rio de Janeiro wasn't named "Distrito Federal" until the Republic was founded in 1889. The Capital City's actual status during Imperial times was of "Município Neutro" (Neutral Municipality), in order to separate it from the Province of Rio de Janeiro. That would be a more accurate naming to be present on the map.

Also, the province of Pernambuco is mistakenly abbreviated as "PF" on the map, while its correct acronym would be "PE". —201.66.200.75 (talk) 20:32, 3 March 2008 (UTC)