Talk:Emperor Suinin

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[edit] Emperor Nonin?

The Nara municipal tourist web site's location map for the misasagi of Emperor Suinan identifies the Hôraisan Kofun as something to do with an Emperor Nonin? map showing location of kofun of Emperor Nonin]

If this is a merely an alternate name for this legendary emperor, this may be an obvious non-problem ..., but in posting this query, I raise a small flag of uncertainty about the first in-line citation of the first paragraph. --Ooperhoofd (talk) 18:56, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The associated description for "Suinin's Tomb" on the same Nara site reads: "The beautiful figure of this tomb 227 meters long reflects on its fosse with rich water. The shape of the tomb is like Mt.Horai-san and it was made in the Ancient Tomb Period (the beginning of 5th Century). Beside the tomb, there is an little island which is said to be the tomb of Tajimanomori, who died with sorrow of the Emperor's death." This places the tomb some 400 years after Suinin's death (who was a "legendary" emperor anyway, so there is little proof he ever existed, though that doesn't prove he didn't). On top of this, the map you reference is full of spelling mistakes. "Emperor" is spelt "Enperor", the website address spells "area" as "aria", so "Nonin" may also be in error.
Googling it doesn't bear much fruit either. One reference refers to a Buddhist title "Nonin", which means "He Who Can Forbear". There are many references to a Buddhist named Dainichi Nonin, founder of Daruma Zenshu, a form of Zen Buddhism. There is also a "Nonin-ji", South Sung (China), from which Shari-den (shrine of the sacred tooth of Buddha) at Engaku-ji temple received said tooth. The building is a Japanese national treasure.
I would be inclined not to add "Nonin" as an alternate name until you actually find some sort of confirmation. At this point I wouldn't consider the map a reliable sole source. Ka-ru (talk) 04:10, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Just an additional note. I've been through the Kojiki (or at least the Basil Hall Chamberlain translation of it) and there is not a single reference to the name "Nonin" in the sections on the life of Emperor Suinin. As this is one of the main original sources of the emperor stories, you would think it would be there if it was a valid alternate name. At this point I would have to say there is no actual written evidence that Nonin was a valid alternate name for Emperor Suinin, so I have removed the "also known as Emperor Nonin" from the start of the article for now. If you want to contact the Nara tourist board and ask them why their map is labelled "Enperor Nonin", it may go a long way to solving that little mystery. Ka-ru (talk) 01:07, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your careful follow-up. At this point, your suggestion about contacting the Nara officials is both sensible and welcome. When I learn more, I'll share that information here; but my guess is that it will very likely confirm your helpful conclusions. --Ooperhoofd (talk) 14:00, 9 January 2008 (UTC)