Talk:Emil Gilels

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Russian or Ukrainian? Can someone give a clue? Mandel 06:37, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Prokofiev Eight Sonata

There has always been a common misconception regarding Prokofiev's Eigth Sonata. It was not dedicated to Emil Gilels, as many people think, maybe due to the fact that he premiered it in Dec. 30, 1944 (and not Dec. 29!!!). The dedicatee of the Eigth Sonata was Mira Mendelssohn.

One of I don't doubt several sources for this claim is this page at Prokofiev.org. Schissel | Sound the Note! 03:23, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eigth Sonata

I am the person who posted before about Mira Mendelssohn. jss9 Thanks

re: He was indeed born in the Ukraine, which however did not have political independence at the time of his birth, so Ukrainian/Russian would be the simplest. Also, it is impossible to maintain that Mr. Richter "pretended" the manner of Gilels' death. He was repeating a widely reported rumor at the time, and given his foremost position in Soviet music circles, it is likely that he had access to more accurate information than the writer of the page.

Please, don't change again the fact that Prokofiev 8th was dedicated to Gilels. It was not. He premiered it, but it was dedicated to Mira Mendelssohn, Prokofiev's second wife. You can check in the Robinson biography and in Sandor's scholarly edition of the sonata. Also, it is mentioned in Prokofiev's autobiography and in some of his letters. Prokofiev never dedicated any piece to Gilels, as their relationship was never that close. He did dedicate his 9th sonata to Richter.


Hi, I just reworded this sentence

"Sergei Prokofiev's Piano Sonata No. 8 was dedicated to Mira Mendelssohn and Gilels premiered it first on December 30, 1944, in the Great Hall of the Moscow Conservatory.""

into

"Gilels premired Sergei Prokofiev's Piano Sonata No. 8, dedicated to Mira Mendelssohn on December 30, 1944 in the Great Hall of the Moscow Conservatory. "

I believe this sounds better than the original sentence because the new sentence successfully focuses on Emil Gilels(since it's his article), and clearly states that the sonata was dedicated to someone else. Vilmosgelb 02:22, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Weinberg

Would Gilels' recording of Mieczyslaw Weinberg's 4th sonata be considered among his Recording Highlights? Schissel | Sound the Note! 03:26, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Supported the Soviet troops during WWII

The presentation on the Eastern Front at http://english.pobediteli.ru/ shows a footage of Gilels playing piano in front of the troops, to boost their moral, as part of a bigger drive to entertain the troops. Maybe a sentence or two can be added about this. 219.68.139.196 14:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Samuil Hilels

What is the source for his being born "Samuil Hilels"? Please note that there is no letter corresponding to Roman "H" in the Cyrillic alphabet and that words spelled "H" in Roman characters are often spelled with a "Г" (normally transliterated "G") in Cyrillic. Thus, for example, Vladimir Horowitz's surname starts with a "Г" in both Russsian and Ukranian, and a literal transliteration of the Russian pronunciation might go "Gorovitz". So there is really no distinction between "Gilels" and "Hilels" unless there is evidence that the name was actually written that way in the Roman alphabet. Grover cleveland 02:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

  • The difference likely comes from the fact that the letter "Г" is pronounced as a G in Russian and as an H in Ukrainian. Since they were from Odessa, they probably used both (Odessa is in Ukraine but primarily ethnic Russian). But you are right -- there is no difference in the name.74.99.213.103 08:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Ukrainian has both H (Г)and G (Ґ)letters. (Note the slight difference in the end). Polish, Czech, Byelorusan and all the other Slavonic languages have both like Ukrainian. Russian is the odd man out as at the present time it has only has G. As a result Hitler is spelled Gitler in Russian. There are Neuhaus is Neugaus. There are a number of words in Russian written withthe G leter where the G is pronounced as an H. These are exceptions to the rule and have to be learned however, most of these exceptions have been forgotten. (Such as the word for God - Bog should be pronounced Boh). Gilels was of Jewish ethnicity and in Yiddish and in Ukrainian it would have been pronounced as Hilels, however because Gilels access to the West was via Russia and Russian language we tend to spell his name as Gilels rather than Hilels. Horowitz is known as Gorowitz in Russia. --Bandurist 00:47, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. I found a couple of references (all very early, from the 1940s) that transliterate his name as Hilels. No luck with "Samuil" though. I've removed the "Samuil" claim from the article, since it's had a citation needed tag for six months, and incorporated the new material. Grover cleveland 02:11, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Venturing abroad

How accurate is the assertion "In his later years he...rarely ventured abroad"?? Considering that he continued to concertize outside the USSR in the 1980s - England, Finland, Italy, USA, Japan, etc... And he was in Germany, recording Beethoven sonatas for DGG, only a few months before his unexpected death in 1985. Chuck28 23:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC)Chuck28

I agree. I think the sentence "In his later years he remained in the USSR and rarely ventured abroad" should be removed, because it is patently not true. Among his final concerts in 1984/5 were recitals in Western Europe, the USA and Japan. He was one of the first Soviet artists allowed to perform in the West amid the Cold War after WW2 (his famous 1955 USA debut) and had more freedom than most to travel and concertize outside the USSR (albeit apparently heavily guarded by KGB minders - ref: Dubal, "Reflections from the Keyboard: p99)--Whimsical Oracle (talk) 16:47, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Widely Regarded

Re: "Gilels is widely regarded as one of the most significant pianists of the twentieth century", I think we need a better source than what is essentially a fan website, which cites no sources for this claim. Alexrexpvt 04:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

If that is a problem, it affects many other pianists pages as well: the articles on Horowitz, Richter and Arrau, to name only three, all have the "widely regarded/considered" statement. But that is all right with me, since it really is common knowledge in the classical music world that these pianists were amongst the 20th century's greatest (and the relevant literature on the subject - books, articles in specialised magazines, etc. - amply bears this out). MUSIKVEREIN 15:40, 17 August, 2007

There is little (if any) dispute within the classical music world that Gilels would feature on any shortlist of the most significant pianists of the 20th century. If you want to cite 'references' as to such an opinion, there are plenty: the editorial of IPQ Winter 2001 noted that Gilels is one of those pianists almost universally admired by pianists and critics alike. In the same issue of IPQ, Thibaudet cites Gilels as a pianist he admires; in the May/June 2002 issue, Howard Shelley names Gilels as one of his pianist idols; in Elyse Mach's book, Jorge Bolet and Garrick Ohlsson named Gilels as someone they admired. In Dubal's book "Reflections from the Keyboard", Bronfman called Gilels "one of my heroes; if somebody asked me who as a pianist I would want to be like, I would say Gilels". Or Kalichstein: "Gilels was definitely one of the great pianists of the twentieth century"... to give but a few examples of the general esteem in which Gilels is held.--Whimsical Oracle (talk) 16:29, 19 February 2008 (UTC)