Talk:Eldridge Cleaver

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In his book, "Soul on Ice", Cleaver admits to raping numerous women. How should this be included in his entry? - Ewhite77 16:21, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

I'm concerned about the accuracy and NPOV of including his defense of the rapes without including the full quote. If you have the book, could you please supply it? RadicalSubversiv E 11:07, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Will do, I'll look it up and include here.--Ewhite77 19:29, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)

The quote, from Soul on Ice:

"I became a rapist. To refine my technique and modus operandi, I started out by practicing on black girls in the ghetto-in the black ghetto where dark and vicious deeds appear not as aberrations or deviations from the norm, but as part of the sufficiency of the Evil of a day-and when I considered myself smooth enough, I cross the tracks and sought out white prey. I did this consciously, deliberately, willfully, methodically-though looking back I see that I was in a frantic, wild, and completely abandoned frame of mind" --Ewhite77 19:03, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for digging that up, but I was actually more concerned with the claim that raping white women was an "insurrectionary act". That he admitted to rape is fairly well known. RadicalSubversiv E 20:04, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

-- ALRIGHT. There is a bit of a problem here. Cleaver was not at all being "provocative" when he called his rapes "insurrectionary." He did not "defend" them in those terms -- rather, he EXPLAINED what he was thinking at the time, in his "abandoned frame of mind" -- that is, long before he wrote the following:

"After I returned to prison, I took a long look at myself and, for the first time in my life, admitted that I was wrong, that I had gone astray-astray not so much from the white man's law as from being human, civilized - for I could not approve the act of rape. Even thought I had some insight into my own motivations, I did not feel justified. I lost my self-respect. My pride as a man dissolved and my whole fragile moral structure seemed to collapse, completely shattered. That is why I started to write. To save myself." (emphasis mine)

WHY was this quote not included in the article, nor mentioned in this discussion ? How can someone reconcile the assertion that he "defended" anything when he flat-out says that rape is wrong, inhuman, and uncivilized ? I think if the word "defended" is used (wrongly, by the way), this quote needs to be included to balance it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bekaymecca (talk • contribs) 16:30, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Eldridge and Rush Limbaugh.

Both Rush Limbaugh and Eldridge are(was) die hard mavericks and into "the righteous way". To their credit - to a point. In the case of the latter - a zealous Christianity.

Both fell into drug induced haze.

Anyone see a pattern here?

--Scroll1 07:28, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

- Uh... Rush is really Eldridge Cleaver, in disguise?

I think that Scroll is in a drug induced haze for typing shit like this.209.244.43.4 07:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Return from Yugoslavia

I recall reading that when he returned he said 'But there were Commies under the rugs'. Does anyone have a source for that?

[edit] Wife

I don't see any reference to Kathleen Cleaver who I think he was married to (1967 to 1987?). Jake b 22:25, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Soul on Fire

I reverted the unexplained excision of the section on Cleaver's book "Soul on Fire".

I have reverted misplaced edits multiple times to the section on this book.

The book was released in 1978. I've read it, from cover to cover. The book is for sale on Amazon. Its existence of the book is well documented, including here:

What I suspect is happening is that well-meaning people, who are aware of Cleaver's more well known book, have misinterpreted WP:BOLD, because they are convinced "Soul on Fire" is a typo, or vandalism, and it didn't occur to them to check first, edit second.

If there is some other reason behind the most recent excision, let's discuss the concern here first.

Cheers! -- Geo Swan 16:05, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


If it was published before he went to Algeria, how can he reveal "several surprising aspects of his exile?" benjabanup

I reverted the section mistakenly titled Soul on Ice to Soul on Fire (which is, indeed, a real book). As suggested by Geo Swan I think people have switched the book title in the past because they assumed vandalism which obviously seems plausible. Of course as benjabanup seemed to be suggesting, Cleaver could not have revealed anything about his Algerian exile when Soul on Ice was published because he had not gone into exile yet.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 23:09, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More "dirt" on Soul on Ice

In his book Soul on Ice, Cleaver writes "I'd jump over ten nigger bitches just to get one white woman." Some civil rights leader. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.240.57.42 (talk) 09:37, 16 February 2007 (UTC).

Actually, if you bother reading the book, you'd see that this sentence is attributed to "an old fat Lazarus", a character which illustrates a popular position among African-Americans, a position, moreover, that Cleaver analyzes and criticizes.

It's not like you have to make up dirt on Soul on Ice. There's a lot to look askance at without being dishonest. Tree of Judas 15:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if anyone plans to add anything about it, but there was a posthumous collection of Eldridge's writings published last year by Palgrave. It's titled Target Zero, and it's edited by his widow, Kathleen Cleaver.

I figure if Soul on Fire deserves its own bullet point, Soul on Ice certainly does too. It seems to me that certain editors are covering up the dirty side of Eldridge's life to keep things clean on his home page. I imagine he'd be rolling over in his grave at this non-confrontational way of dealing with his writings, politics and history.

[edit] Cleaver was a libertarian?

I have read Cleaver was a presidential candidate from Libertarian Party.

Cleaver (kind of) ran for president in 1968 on the Peace and Freedom Party (a left wing political party) ticket which may be what you are thinking of. He became very conservative and involved in Republican Party politics in his later years, and it's possible that at some point in the 1980s he ran on a Libertarian ticket of some sort (not for president though according to the article Libertarian Party (United States), and he is not mentioned anywhere in that article). I have not heard about any association with the libertarians before before but I don't know much about Cleaver in his post-exile years.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 23:14, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Just an aside, I find it interesting that even if he had won the 1968 election for President, he couldn't have assumed the office since he was only 33 years old, not required minimum age of 35 from the U.S. Constitution.

I was talking on his support to legalization from drugs. Him was candidate from a libertarian party, but no the official LP USA. http://politics1.com/parties.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tioeliecer (talk • contribs)

The link you provided mentions that he ran for prez from the Peace and Freedom Party which I mentioned in my previous comment and which is already in the article. I don't know what Cleaver's attitude toward drug legalization was, but supporting that position does not automatically make one a libertarian--there are many folks who support legalizing drugs who do not call themselves libertarians. Since I still have seen no information linking Cleaver to any libertarian group, this is all pretty irrelevant. In the future please be sure to sign your talk page comments using the signature button at the top of the edit box, thanks.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 22:18, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cut the following

"Cleaver was followed by other former-criminals-turned-revolutionaries, many of whom hijacked planes to get to Algeria. The Algerians expected Cleaver to keep his proteges in line, which he described as increasingly difficult as their increasing numbers stretched his North Vietnamese allowance to the breaking point. Cleaver organized a stolen car ring to employ his revolutionary proteges, stealing cars in Europe to sell in Africa."

Onaccounta...if 'many' people were hijacking planes and landing them in Algeria, you'd think we would have a confirming source for it. Ethan Mitchell 03:12, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Major organizations"

Why is Cleaver listed as belonging to the Nation of Islam? I have never seen any evidence of that. The only Islam he was involved with was working on creating his own variation of "Christlam". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Toddsschneider (talk • contribs) 18:34, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

He was a member of the Nation while in Folsom prison and eventually defected to side with Malcolm X against Elijah Muhammad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.192.203.85 (talk) 05:21, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] this article's obsession with rape of white women

This article --and the discussion--are pretty much obsessed with this topic. Which pretty much underline's Cleaver's point in making these provocateur statements. Yeah they're disgusting statements. But they're obvious provocations and the article falls for 'em.

By the way, it's a terrible article, needs a rewrite from the ground up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackbrown (talk • contribs) 17:01, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Part-time fashion designer?

I was sent the link below recently.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2254/1830633334_ff32506b21_o.jpg

Could there be any truth to this? 79.103.178.172 (talk) 10:35, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is true, though I've never seen those pictures before. Cleaver did design pants with a "penis sheath" (or whatever you want to call it) and that is fairly well known. It would probably be appropriate to mention it in the article, though I think there are a lot of other improvements that need to be made first. This article says next to nothing about his involvement with the Black Panthers (which is almost certainly the most important thing about him), his writings when he was a Panther, and his most well known book Soul on Ice. Until we get some of that snuff up to speed (which I personally don't have time for right now) it would probably be a violation of our policy on undue weight - at least the spirit of it - to put in the bit about the penis pants. Obviously that is a fairly trivial aspect of his career which is well known only because it's a bit ridiculous.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 17:49, 30 March 2008 (UTC)