Talk:El Paso, Texas

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[edit] Politics

[edit] Kennedy Impact

Removed paragraph that doesn't seem to have anything to do with El Paso:

A presidential visit to the state of Texas was first suggested to President John F. Kennedy by his Vice President, Lyndon Baines Johnson and Texas Governor John Bowen Connally, Sr. while all three men were together in a meeting on June 6, 1963, less than six months before the Kennedy assassination in Dallas, Texas. President Kennedy decided to embark on the November 1963 trip with three basic goals in mind: the president wanted to help raise more Democratic Party presidential campaign fund contributions; he wanted to begin his quest for re-election in November, 1964; and, because the Kennedy-Johnson ticket had barely won Texas in 1960 President Kennedy wanted to help mend political fences among several leading Texas Democratic party members who appeared to be fighting politically amongst themselves, which included Johnson/Connally fighting with Texas Senator Ralph Yarborough.


This should be resubmitted. President Kennedy did come to El Paso and while here discussed plans for that fateful Dallas trip. See this page for information about the Chamizal National Memorial, which was the reason he came to El Paso in the first place.

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/hisnps/NPSHistory/parkdate.htm

"August 29 1963: The Chamizal Treaty resolved a 99-year dispute over the boundary between the U.S. and Mexico in the El Paso?Juarez Valley. Chamizal National Memorial in El Paso, TX, commemorates the peaceful settlement."

This memorial is the only National Park in the area. Evidently what is missing above is information about the Chamizal Treaty in general, and Kennedy's dedication and trip. This can then segue the above deleted paragraph.

Elpgrrrl 03:13, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

  • This a general overview of the treaty:
    In the 1960's(?) Mexice began complaining that the Rio Grande had shifted south, an thereby increasing the land mass of El Paso while simulataniously decreasing the landmass of Juarez. Seeking to resolve the problem the U.S. and Mexico reached an agreement whereby 100 acres of land that once belonged to mexico would be returned, and the Rio Grande's boundry between the cities set with concrete so as to prevent this problem in the future. The land returned to Mexico eventually became the Chamizal National Memerial.
    Thats a rough sketch of the information, but I'm not sure that all the information is acurate, so it needs to be checked before its placed in the article. TomStar81 06:05, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] El Paso as part of the South

What is the opinion on El Paso being part of the South? There is some debate on this issue on the Southern United States discussion page. Some of the debate is shown here: ...El Paso is both Hispanic and Western. But I also believe that it's Southern. Early pioneers to El Paso were Southerners moving there from North and East Texas, Alabama, and Georgia. The following was taken from the Handbook of Texas Online:

"During the Civil War most of the El Paso pioneers were overwhelmingly sympathetic to the South. Although Confederate forces occupied Fort Bliss in 1861, the tide began to turn in favor of the Union cause the following year, and in August the Stars and Stripes was raised once again over Fort Bliss. The local Southern sympathizers eventually received presidential pardons, but some, such as Simeon Hart, battled for years before they recovered their properties." In addition, the area was part of the Confederate States of America. The region of Texas bordering Mexico in far South Texas is undisputedly Southern, but it is Hispanic as well. There is an overlapping of cultures in Texas, but that isn't a reason one of those cultures can't be Southern...Thanks.
Please give input on this subject. It would be greatly appreciated. Stallions2010 07:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

    • I think since El Paso is part of Texas, and Texas is part of the South, we are automatically the South. Smguy101 01:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

There seem to be a number of valid opinions with a lot of supporting evidence on this subject, so I think it deserves to be a sub-heading under History explaining El Paso politics and popular opinion before and during the period of the Civil War.Hondo 19:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I absloutely agree with your view on El Paso having a unique Southern character. We are part of Texas, a southern state & we subscribe to Texas law & our society is full of southern ways. Simply stated, (and taken from the southern literature Wiki page, El Paso culture includes the "Characteristics of Southern literature include a focus on a common Southern history, the significance of family, a sense of community and one’s role within it, the region's dominant religion (Christianity, See Protestantism) and the burdens/rewards religion often brings, issues of racial tension, land and the promise it brings, a sense of social class, and the use of the Southern dialect."

Even during the war between the states, El Paso(as was in colonial & old Mexico days) the gateway to the territory of New Mexico.

I am from Dallas but I travel to El Paso for business frequently. While El Paso has many of the best characteristics of Southern cities, (charm, gracious, courteous people, emphasis on family and roots), I just dont feel like I am in a Southern town when I visit. Maybe it is the arid landscape or the predominance of hispanic culture, (which I love)that sets El Paso apart. I just cant put my finger on it, but speaking as someone who is proud to be from the South, I dont feel like I am in the South in El Paso. Having said that, I wouldnt change a thing about the place. I really like it there.

It's much more a part of the west than of the south, culturally, demographically, politically maybe; maybe it's because it's further west than Albuquerque and Denver, and half way between Pasadena CA and Pasadena TX. And it's not humid, as you note. Dicklyon 04:01, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Culturally, El Paso is part of New Mexico (since 1598). For example, the first bridge to Juarez was built with wood from Santa Fe about 250 years ago. People do not speak with the Texas Twang, but have more of a Western accent. I count Marfa and points east before the Southern drawl is noticeable. This cultural difference may exist in part because of the influence of the military population in El Paso, who have lived all over the world, and of course from the predominant Mexican-American population. --Ancheta Wis 01:49, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

PLEASE ..the real question is IS TEXAS REALLY SOUTHERN? or is it really southwestern ... The Texas Twang is not Southern really, it is western. with a southern influence. TEXAS in the Confederacy was mostly east of the Brazos and the reason El Paso went Union is because of its westerly position. The Confederate hold outs were near the Gulf of Mexico. When will there be a western uprising and the GRAND STATE OF WEST TEXAS be incorporated? If Texas retains the right to withdraw from the Union why cann't a portion of the state form a new one? All that natural gas and oil; all the farm lands and cattle country OZONA TO EL PASO the PAN HANDLE TO BIG BENDCarmeldesigner 22:01, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Culture

[edit] Tigua

How come there is no mention of the Tiguas in Ysleta which is part of El Paso now.

  • The Tiguas keep to themselves, as such not a lot is known about them. If it makes you feel better, I'll see what i can dig up on thier history and place it into the article.


Yes, the Tigua Pueblo del Sur Reservation lies within El Paso County and they do maintain a separate identity from the rest of the county and the city. But, in light of the issues with Ambramoff and Scanlon, something should pinpoint where this Native Tribe is located with a link back to El Paso, Texas, Ambramoff, Scanlon, and anything else that fits including Tribal Gaming.

Elpgrrrl 03:13, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Mabey we could add a line or two about how the Tiguas were defrauded by Abramoff and lost Speaking Rock casino.

Out of repsect to the Tigua, I think we need to expand (& mention) also on the Tigua tribe. Lets not forget though their relatives to the north the Isleta Pueblo.

[edit] Expansion

I removed this trivia statement from the main article:

* Many Mexicans and Anglos intermarried. Many of populations are of Spanish, German and Mexican descendents.

While I believe this to be generally true, it's a very broad statement and could use specifics and at the very least cite a reference or two before being returned as part of the Culture section.Hondo 16:07, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Geography

[edit] Mt. Cristo Rey

Maybe there should be a link? Mt. Christo Rey is located between New Mexico and Mexico, but very near to El Paso.
see:
http://www.celebrationofourmountains.org/

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tips/getAttraction.php3?tip_AttractionNo==3485

Elpgrrrl 03:13, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

There is a white cone about a third to a half of the way up Mt. Cristo Rey that symbolizes the exact spot where the Texas, Mexico, and New Mexico borders meet.

while you are at it white sands should be added to nearby sites of interest section 69.92.38.180 09:24, 1 October 2007 (UTC) gowithflo


[edit] Prominant Architecture

I would like to include a section devoted to the prominant architecture, and buildings in El Paso. Structures such as the Albert Bacon Fall 1907 mansion located at 1725 Arizona, the cortez building located at 310 North Mesa Street, and the Roberts-Banner Building located at 215 North Mesa Street just to neame a handful. The Banner Building alone is important because it is the fourth concrete building by Henry C. Trost to anchor the Plaza is a magnificent “U” shaped concrete structure with wonderful detailing. Any suggestions, or help would be appreciated. Somnabot 06:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget Louis Daeuble architect of the main downtown branch of the ElPaso Public Library, the Convention Center and Other notable buildings. Carmeldesigner 22:05, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Star on the Mountain

An explanation of the Star would be an excellent addition if someone can provide it. It is referenced once in the article with Eddie Guerrero. Hondo 15:35, 28 October 2006 (UTC) ...And now it's gone, because Eddie's part of the Famous El Pasoans List.Hondo 19:36, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

El Paso can thank Jack Maxon for his support. Carmeldesigner 22:07, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History

[edit] Biggs Air Force Base

Anybody in E.P. ever heard of it?--Buckboard 14:02, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Back in the day that United States Army Air Force operated out at the biggs airfield. After WWII the US created the independent US air force, which assumed command of biggs army airfield, thus making it Biggs Air Force Base. I am not familiar with the curcumstances surrounding the armys reacquistion of the facility; however I do know that they regained control of the airfield, thus changing its desigantion from an independent AFB to an army airfield. TomStar81 09:09, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


  • I have heard of Biggs AAF being Biggs AFB back in the day. I think when the Government opened Holloman AFB 80 miles North in Alamogordo, they decided to give Biggs AFB to Ft. Bliss. Smguy101 02:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Famous El Pasoans to be added?

Note, need to add these bands:
At the Drive-In
Iron Butterfly
The Mars Volta
Sparta

And also the actress:
Lupe Ontiveros
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0648913

Elpgrrrl 04:00, 11 October 2005 (UTC) (placed here by Maltmomma (chat) 05:49, 11 October 2005 (UTC))

Could we merge them and the actual List of famous people from El Paso, Texas into the main article? I noticed a couple of these bands are already on that list.Hondo 16:14, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Statistics

[edit] Crime in El Paso

Someone should put a section about El Paso being one of the safest cities in the United States. Smguy101 21:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I've added the tidbit above with the appropriate citation, but more crime statistics would be appreciated if available. Hondo 14:10, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, I was just about to ask where the crime information was. --AW 03:41, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

El Paso is not one of the most safest cities, the problem with El Paso is that with the corruption with-in the police department that runs rampant the crime is simply not getting reported. The devils triangle in the Northeast is still an area where homicides occur on a regular basis, the city has a huge problem with drugs, theft of personal property and automobiles is so out of control that you cannot even take your car to the mall without it being broken into or dissappearing. I have lived in other cities where this is not as big a problem. Cielo Vista Mall is one of the worst places to park a car. Even when i lived outside of Richmond Virginia I didnt experience this issue at such a rate.

[edit] History of Hispanic vs. Anglo Population Numbers

Was the city always ethnic-Mexican majority, or has it been "re-Mexicanized" in the post-WW2 era?

Was there official segregation, denial of voting rights to an ethnic-Mexican minority/majority?

Should the possible return to ethnic-Mexican majority in recent times be billed with the same section-headline prominence as the original transfer away from Mexico -- "Re-Mexicanization in the Post-War Period"?

Could we get a chart of rising and falling "Anglo" vs. Hispanic population? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.6.251.38 (talk) 08:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Transportation

[edit] Removed transportation section

The reason for modifying the transportation section so heavily is a simple one. The El Paso page is very long. I Was browsing the Los Angeles page and I noticed that to keep the main article short, the transportation of the city was briefly described on the main article and was discussed in greater detail in a separate page.

OK, thanks for cooperating, finally. I trust you'll be using edit summaries and talk pages in the future.
For now, the appropriate move is probably a quick poll: who supports or opposes the idea of moving the information in the Transportation section to a new article Transportation in El Paso?
  • Oppose – the article is not so long that it needs this split. Dicklyon 20:43, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Support – This article is very long. We should follow the example of the larger cities' pages (Pianofortestudent112 21:06, 29 April 2007 (UTC))
  • Oppose -- The Article isn't as long. I think we should wait until the article get ridiculously long and put the History of El Paso into a separate article first. Smguy101 15:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC))
  • Oppose - First of all, the article is getting larger, and pretty close to where it probably should be split. It's ~55k now. Remember that this guideline isn't for people who have 3 computer monitors or the latest in Internet browsers, but to ensure compatibility no matter how you access Wikipedia, including mobile devices. I oppose because I don't think the Transportation section is enough to alleviate the problem. We should discuss summarizing and splitting several sections. Unfortunately the article is written with several sections, none of which are too huge. Wikidan829 22:09, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
  • The History Section is a little long, maybe we should put that in a separate article (Smguy101 04:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Images

[edit] Skyline Image

The reason why I changed the main skyline image was because the previous image did not show the El Paso County Courthouse, which is a part of the city skyline. If this image is not liked, i will try and find another one. (Pianofortestudent112 20:55, 29 April 2007 (UTC))

  • I like the new picture, but is it possible to make it a little bigger? And this picture does not really show the County Courthouse. My picture shows most of the main skyline (the El Paso skyline image in the article) (Smguy101 21:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC))
  • Thanks! i will try and make it bigger. I like your skyline picture too. The problem is is that it shows a lot of the third world (mexico).
Why is that a problem? That's what you see when you look at El Paso from where you can see it. Dicklyon 22:07, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Yeah that is true, El paso wouldn't be as big if Juarez wasn't across our sad excuse of a river lol (Smguy101 04:02, 30 April 2007 (UTC))

A great addition wou;d be a photo taken from Juarez toward El Paso. It is a rare photo of that angle Carmeldesigner 22:10, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] so what?

"It stands on the Rio Grande (Río Bravo del Norte), across the border from Ciudad Juárez. The two cities form a metropolitan area of 2,280,782 making it the largest international border community in which the developed and newly industrialized worlds meet in such a close proximity."

  1. "Developed" and "industrialized" are somewhat subjective judgement words that are far from a black and white dichotomy. I don't see how the notion of the closest place between them can even be objectively measured.
  2. There's no source on this "fact".
  3. Such esoteric information really fails the "so what?" test.

--Loodog 04:07, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I've read this somewhat absurd claim that El Paso has been making for years, sometimes without any qualification. San Diego-Tijuana is 4.9 million people and Detroit-Windsor 6.0 million. The latter makes the same claim without the vague qualifiers now that Hong Kong has been returned to China.

San Diego-Tijuana metropolitan area

Windsor-Detroit

Rijkstra 15:18, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Very well. I'm removing it.--Loodog 15:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Good move, but I would still like to know how El Paso's claim originated. I neglected to mention that San Diego-Tijuana has the busiest border crossing in the world, something you would expect in El Paso-Juárez if the claim had any merit. Detroit-Windsor doesn't have it because San Diego-Tijuana is more balanced in population on both sides of the border.--Rijkstra 16:59, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

El Paso's claim originated back when San Diego did not touch the US/Mexico Border. Now that San Diego does touch the US/Mexico border, El Paso/Juarez dropped down to 2nd largest bi-national metro area on the US/Mexico Border. As a fellow El Pasoan, most people think that El Paso is bigger than many cities. El Paso back in 1995 was the 4th largest city in Texas, now it's the 6th. El Paso is basically stuck in the past. With no opportunities here, everyone is moving away. Smguy101 04:04, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

San Diego annexed the border area in 1957, but even before then the claim had a hurdle because unincorporated South San Diego was still part of the San Diego Metro area. Most of the time I've seen El Paso's claim it was not limited to Mexico and that claim has always been trumped by Detroit-Windsor. San Diego has been in a slow economic decline as well. In 1990 it was the 6th largest city in the U.S., but since then Phoenix (6) and San Antonio (7) have passed it. Having a border nearby could be a curse, because many of the U.S. cities' costs related to its proximity aren't fully reimbursed by the federal government.--Rijkstra 01:28, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning?

What is this supposed to mean: Recent city-wide projects funded through the election of bonds have once again pushed the urban sprawl onward for El Paso. Does this mean the city is subsidising urban sprawl? I doubt it. As far as I can tell from the context the author was attempting to describe urban renewal - which is quite a different concept that sprawl. Regards, Signaturebrendel 04:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why were the temperature stats removed?

Seems very curious that someone with no edit history would come in and nuke something as relevant as that without explaining why.Talshiarr 03:11, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] test

test —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.83.31.1 (talk) 01:08, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] In popular culture

El Paso is the scene of certain dramatic incidents in the movie "No Country for Old Men" and mentioned several times in the script. Should this information be included somewhere in the article (e.g. under the heading "El Paso in popular culture")? Gjnyasa (talk) 05:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DEA

DEA stands for Drug Enforcement Administration, NOT Agency.Jimgreff (talk) 02:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)