Image talk:Einsatzgruppen Killing.jpg

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

== What's the rationale behind the PD tag for this image? Images created in 1942 are still covered by copyright, even those created by Nazi Germany. The source given doesnt mention that the image is in the public domain, only that it came from the Library of Congress. It should be noted that not all images in the LoC are public domain. GeeJo (t) (c) • 21:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Fixed the link to the USHMM's image description page, where they explicitly state the image was in the public domain (in the U.S., I presume). I do not know why they make that claim. Lupo 10:53, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I've seen this image in a book, labeled as a Pole being executed just after the September 1939 campaign. 24.119.29.179 03:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

YOU ARE CENSORING and have deleted the majority of my comments in this so-called FREE Encyclopedia. You are just reaffirming the reality of this grand hoax and coverup. You must know the photo is a fake. You love of lies over TRUTH is very evident. I wonder who really sponsors this site. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.91.222.68 (talk • contribs) 17:35, September 1, 2006 (UTC). [1]

Contents

[edit] Copyright problem

Since this photo dates from 1942, the reason it is considered public domain cannot be it that it dates from before January 1, 1923. The link entitled "USHMM image description page' does not link to a description page, but to an unrelated page with a different photograph. There is no information on this page about Einsatzgruppen Killing.jpg, and the copyright information for the image that does appear on that page claims the copyright is held by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. This suggests that the stated source for the image retains copyright on at least some of the images displayed on its site, and since no specific information about this image is offered, I'm tagging it {{PUIdisputed}}. --Rrburke 16:50, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Specific information added, tag removed. Cantankrus 19:23, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
As you can see above, I had to update the link to the USHMM's image description page already back in June. Let's hope the new link now remains permanent... Anyway, I do not know why the USHMM claims this image was in the public domain. Maybe it is so in the U.S., but—like most German WWII-era photos—it is in all likelihood still copyrighted in Germany. Lupo 06:33, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually according to the library of Congress the image was donated by the United States Holocaust Memorial Council. Conversely on the www.ushmm.org website they cite their source as being from the Library of Congress. Where did the photo originate from? nobody seems to know. Furthermore the listing in the Library of Congress specifically states with regards to collection that this photo is a part of:

NOTES:

Media includes: 7 Posters : offset.

Creator not recorded.

Collection stored onsite. Includes: 1 MCE size container (partial).

Note keep as Lot. Accompanied by a pamphlet explaining the posters.

This record contains unverified data from accession records.

Gift; United States Holocaust Memorial Council.

REPOSITORY: Library of Congress Prints and Photographs Division Washington, D.C. 20540 USA

CARD #: iuc2006004043

So my question is, if there are contradictory claims being made of the original source, if the creator is unknown, and it contains unverified data, why is it being used as as Encyclopedia material? --Nazrac 23:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Please discuss issues on one talk page, rather then in several. I'm not convinced this record relates to the photo. The photo is verifiable through a reliable source, which is the criteria for inclusion in Wikipedia. You've now used 4 distinct arguements to try and get this photo excluded, none of which is more then speculation and original research on your part. Cantankrus 03:58, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

According to the Wikipedia verifiability rules, editors are permitted and encouraged to verify the sources of material in the article. That is not considered original research. My argument is consistent in that the image does not appear to be what it is being represented as and it cannot be verified as such. --Nazrac 16:41, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Please provide evidence that this LoC record pertains to this image. It mentions 7 posters and a pamphlet and nothing else. This image here is not a poster, though. Is this record on-line somewhere? How did you find it? Lupo 17:02, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Found it now. It's the first search record for the word "Holocaust" at the LoC P&P search. What makes you think this entry had anything to do with this image? That record doesn't say it did. Lupo 17:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Nazrac has been promoting conspiracy theories regarding this photographs for months now. This is just another sad attempt at getting rid of it somehow. Jayjg (talk) 17:53, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date of photograph

Is there some basis for dating the photographic definitively as having been taken in 1942? The bibliographic record the USHMM sent me reads "1941 or 1942". --Rrburke 14:43, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

The date was taken from the first extlk given on the image page. The second extlk states "1941-1943". Lupo 14:50, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Larger version

I found a much larger version here (from here). Would it be a good idea to upload that version instead? I don't know much about copyrights, and I'm not sure if any version of this image is in the public domain, or maybe just the thumbnail, so I thought I'd ask if someone else might know. Dylan 20:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

No one's responded; I'm going to go with my gut and upload the bigger version. I figure if the photo at all is in the public domain, then any version of it should be fine. Dylan 18:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] comment by User:71.198.34.253

This is not a holocaust denial thing at all, but these photos are clearly fake. Look carefully at the way people are lined up. These were created by the USSR as a propaganda effort. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.198.34.253 (talk • contribs) 00:23, 25 March 2007.

Please see WP:NOR --Rrburke(talk) 16:59, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, let's say the Soviets used this photo as propaganda then thank God they did! I mean, who would spend efforts to fight the Nazis if they didn't see such "fake" materials like you said? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.247.73.55 (talk) 03:30, 26 September 2007 (UTC)