Talk:Egotism

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[edit] Confusion?

The text is a little bit confusing for most readers. Most people expect that egosim is not giving and receiving an equal amount of values, but rather wanting everything... --128.178.150.3 23:19, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Egotism is not egoism

As noted by Ayn Rand in her 1968 introduction to The Fountainhead, there is a difference between egoism and egotism.

The difference is that egoism is equal trade in values, while egotism – exactly like altruism – belongs to the realm of disconnection between what a person gives and what he recieves. -A.R. 18:15, 16 December 2005

-- Since when is Ayn Rand a respected authority on mental illness?

An excellent point, anonymous person! 75.152.155.22 15:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Famous egotists

There should be a list of famous egotists, egomaniacs etc.--Percussion

[edit] Egotism vs. Egoism

I'm not really surprised that egoitism apparently differs from egoism, since they are, really, different words... but everyone I've ever spoken to uses the two terms synonymously, which makes this article rather confusing to me, since everyone around me has hammered it into me by now that they are synonymous, despite my initial doubts. And now, here is this article, claiming that they're not. Accordingly - I hate to say it... but I really think this article desperately needs sources, otherwise confusions about this term won't lessen any.

  • Who has said that egotism and egoism are different concepts?
  • What exactly is their difference and who says so?
  • Since when does the word 'egotism' exist? What is its etymology? Why did it evolve?
  • How is its etymology different from egoism's? I mean 'ego'+'ism' = egoism where does this 't' come from in egotism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Inkredibl (talk • contribs) 15:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

And so forth. I have none of this information myself, regrettably - but this subject interests me, so I'd love to see this article grow and cite its sources.

Much thanks to whomever makes the changes, -pinkgothic 23:25, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I concur. Though in my mind, I thought I had a distinction between the two words. I went to Wiktionary to see what they said:
  • egotism (a preoccupation with oneself; a belief that one is superior)
  • egoism (excessive love and thought of self; the habit of regarding one's self as the center of every interest).
Those definitions seem fairly synonymous. Google searching for both words yielded this site:
  • egotism (a psychological overvaluation of one’s own importance, or of one’s own activities)
  • egoism (the theory that one’s self is, or should be, the motivation and the goal of one’s own action)
Finally, getting down to the Encarta defition and distinction:
These two words, which are equally common, are often used interchangeably, though a distinction can 
be made. Egoism refers, in terms of philosophy, to theories in which self-interest is regarded as 
the principal motivating factor. And so an egoist believes an individual should seek as an end only 
his or her own welfare: His conduct was characterized by ruthless egoism. Egotism implies a vain 
self-absorption as a matter of behavior rather than an ethical principle, and an egotist is somebody
who behaves in a selfish or self-centered way: Her egotism makes her ignore other people's 
concerns.
From that, I would conclude that an egoist has made an actual decision to place their own needs above the needs of others, while an egotist is a person who simply possesses a genetic trait of egotism. For further distinction, I'll conjecture that not all egoists are egotists (that is, a person can choose to place a higher priority on their own needs regardless of genetic predisposition), and not all egotists are egoists (even with a genetic predisposition towards egoism, a person can still place a higher priority on others' needs, but not necessarily).
That sounds like a lot of WP:OR, I'm hesitant to add it to the article. Perhaps someone could rephrase the OR out of it. Xaxafrad 06:09, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

If it helps, I'm looking at actual, printed, hard-copy dictionary right now. How terribly old-fashioned. Egoism and Egotism do have separate and distinct definitions. One being an ethical position, the other being something more like a personality trait, or even disorder.

Egoism (n) 1 concern for one's own interest and welfare. 2 the theory that the pursuit of one's own welfare is the highest good. 3 self-centredness; egotism

Egotist (n) 1 an inflated sense of self-importance or superiority; self-centrednes 2 excessive reference to oneself.

Granted, one of the potential definition does render the two words synonymous, but the others do not and the distinction is worth preserving since they are different ideas. SpaceyHopper (talk) 17:47, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting subject, but..

I'm a little surprised that the article has no references, and does not attempt a psychological exploration of the subject. Surely there would be plenty of material. It seems almost like a definition which would be better suited to a dictionary. I'm sure many psychologists have conducted lots of interesting studies.--Gazzster 12:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Egomania: Egotism or NPD?

I noticed that egomania redirects to this article. However, I wonder if it might be more correct to have it redirect to Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Egotism is a worldview, but egomania is a mental disorder, and I would think it more correct that it is a layman's term for NPD, rather than a synonym for egotism. Reveilled 22:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV dispute

The sentence "A leader pours troops and money into a war that has become a quagmire." can be seen as a reference to President George W. Bush. Some people may be offended by this as many view egotism as a negative trait. Since this statement is derived from pure opinion, it has no place here on Wiki. The Exiled Fighter 02:38, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

You're quite right. Hell, I even would probably agree with the statement but it's entirely out of place here. The examples weren't particularly clear cut anyways; I've excised them from the article. Admittedly that's the easy way out, I should be constructive and try writing better ones, but I'm not so convinced that the basic article is solid enough to even need examples yet and admittedly I'm a bit lazy... Phil Urich 15:42, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Dispute resolved ^_^ The Exiled Fighter (talk) 08:35, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conjectural illustration of egotist vs egoist

My unsourced understanding of the contrast between an egoist and egotist can be illustrated in the following manner.

A man is working in a charity, trying to help people suffering from AIDS. He thinks of himself that he is very important in that charity, where in fact he is quite unimportant. This person cannot be said to be an egoist, at least not an egoist in terms of money or social power, but he can be said to be an egotist, by having an overblown estimation of his own importance.

Can some native speaker refute or confirm this conjectural example? --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:35, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Self destructive?

As an Objectivist I can clearly state that egotism is not self destructive. It is the opposite(in my opinion) this article definatly doesn't meet NPOV standards70.151.125.19 (talk) 15:07, 7 April 2008 (UTC)Arbiter099

sorry. to any readind I confused egotism and egoism. 75.65.125.205 (talk)Arbiter099 —Preceding comment was added at 23:38, 5 June 2008 (UTC)