User talk:Ebonyskye/Archive1

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[edit] New stuff for admin consideration

Skinny McGee falsely reported that my first edit on wikipedia was to the Midnight Syndicate page. But my first edit was to Keenan Ivory Wayans[1]. I just clicked a randam article until I found one that required cleanup. I did not edit Midnight Syndicate at all.

Two months later[2] I removed a cd cover in order to start a new album page. I also added the updated infobox to that band[3] in preparation for that. But that was all I did.

Later when I was doing research for the other Midnight Syndicate album, I read a discussion on this pageTalk:Dungeons_&_Dragons_(album). My research showed the "first officially licensed D&D album" was not by Midnight Syndicate but by another composer named Garfinkle. I posted my research on my Sandbox. I also mentioned a former producer for this band, Joseph Vargo, who helped the band get recognition[4]. I made only that ONE post about Vargo to that page.

I Later removed the statement "first and only" since Garfinkle was first to compose a D&D album[5].

Another editor, JMilburn, made additional edits afterwards to the same article.[6] elaborating on the topic of Vargo.

Skinny_McGee then complained that he thought the topic of Vargo was inappropriate and was trying to get the other editors to remove the reference[7]. And when the other editors would not remove it, Skinny McGee made a false report to get me blocked, which now I am assuming was some sort of retaliation.

I found out later that Skinny McGee was banned from editing Midnight Syndicate and any related pages for Nox Arcana and is believed by Thatcher131 to be Edward Douglas.

Thatcher131 blocked me on behalf of Skinny McGee, but did NOT block Skinny McGee for editing, even though Skinny McGee broke his ban. Thatcher131 says he blocked me for 'supposedly' having an IP "in the vicinity of" another user. He also said he did NOT block Skinny McGee because "he apologized." Thatcher131 admitted that I was not being abusive, but still blocked me.

When I pointed out to Thatcher131 that he was making a mistake and that having an IP in the "vicinty" is not a reason for blocking me[8], he then changed his reasoning and accused me of using original research[9]. Clearly he did not bother to read the the citation, as I had no secret knowledge of anything; it's all right on the website that is cited. He seems to come up with one excuse after another for why he blocked me and none of them hold water.

When I posted a "request to unblock" no sooner did my post go up than lucasbfr denied it... only 9 seconds after I made the request.[10] He never even looked at anything! Not one single admin has taken time to look into this.

Thatcher131 told me I was not allowed to edit but could make suggestions on talk pages. Then when I did make some suggestions [11], he also beat me up for doing that, calling it forum shopping (something I still don't understand).

I have discussed this matter in length with Thatcher131 on my own talk page, in personal emails to him (supplying my name and address), and have tried to ask the help of other admins. But it just keeps escalating and my case keeps being ignored.

Meanwhile, I found out that I really am not disallowed from editing.

Here's a list of other users who started pages with Vargo's name in them and who also mentioned Vargo on the Midnight Syndicate pages. I have done very little compared to all their edits.

  • Users working on Nox Arcana [12]
  • Users working on Darklore Manor album[13].

Note also that Skinny McGee edited the Nox Arcana Darklore Manor page as well, breaking his ban. The citations he removed twice are well documented, and is permitted as expert research, as it was on the D&D album page by JMilburn[14].

I am not trying to make enemies here, but I feel like I got railroaded. This just really bothers me to be treated like some sort of leper just for mentioning a person's name. What does that mean for me on future articles? Am I not permitted to offer research? Ebonyskye 11:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] (Older stuff) False allegations from Skinny McGee, laziness and bias from various admins

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Midnight_Syndicate

As a result of Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Midnight_Syndicate, User:GuardianZ was banned from editing Midnight Syndicate, and all present and past employees and associates of Midnight Syndicate, Nox Arcana, or Monolith Graphics are prohibited from editing Midnight Syndicate and related articles, including Dungeons & Dragons (album) and Nox Arcana. Following a complaint at WP:AE, I have concluded that you are a reincarnation of GuardianZ, based on your contributions and on checkuser data showing you edit from the same ISP and geographic area as GuardianZ. Therefore the topic ban applies to you, and you may not edit any related articles. I am also blocking your account for 48 hours for deliberate ban evasion, since this account has been active on these articles a long time. I have the option to ban you indefinitely, but since your behavior seems to have been acceptable, I will allow this account to remain active so you can contribute on article talk pages. Thatcher131 01:08, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I support Thatcher's block. DurovaCharge! 01:20, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No Attempt to "review" request for Unblock

This blocked user (block log | autoblocks | rangeblocks | unblock | contribs | deleted contribs) has asked to be unblocked, but an administrator has reviewed and declined this request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock request while you are blocked.

Request reason: "I believe that User:Skinny_McGee has mistaken me as some other user, and has some sort of grudge against anyone that edits the Midnight Syndicate page if they happen to mention the band's former member or any credit to him.

  • The edits I have made are very few and neutral. Mostly, I have been involved in creating new pages for books[15] [16] and other bands[17][18].
  • I have read back through Skinny McGee's history, and it appears that he questions it when someone edits his band page, and even asks other people to edit it for him. [19]
  • Skinny McGee has edited pages related to the Midnight Syndicate page, which he admits that he was banned from editing.
Adding a promotional link to his band page [20]
When I posted a summary[21] of the Darklore Manor album by Nox Arcana, Skinny McGee removed my contributions[22]and[23]. He is apparently banned from editing the Nox Arcana material as part of the previous ban.
  • Skinny McGee entered into a discussion I was having with someone else in regard to another album[24] calling a reference inappropriate (and I had not even posted it on the band page). Yet, he was lobbying to prevent further investigation.
  • Skinny McGee questioned my removal of a Midnight Syndicate album cover[25] when policy clearly states that albums go on album pages, not band pages.
  • Things I was blamed for by Skinny McGee but did NOT edit...
User:4.159.77.130 removed a "See also" link to Nox Arcana from Midnight Syndicate[26]. That was NOT one of my edits. That link was placed there by User:Cromag. When I edited other text, that link was just copied as part of the older text so I would not lose the page formatting.
  • I removed an incorrect statement[27] and validated my reason for doing this on the talk page. I further defined the role of Joseph Vargo here[28] and added a date for the event.
  • I have adhered to policy WP:CITE and have made neutral edits.
  • And yet have been told that sources such as The Internet Movie Database is not reliable[29]. I have been told that Midnight Syndicate's autobiography is accepted, yet when I referenced Garfinkle's bio on IMDB and on his own website, I am told it is not acceptable--and Garfinkle is a composer with tons of movie and tv credits to his name. I'm not talking about an indie band here. That is my only complaint with this subject.
  • I have been a victim of circumstance. I did not truly realize the in-depth history of this band war between Midnight Syndicate and Nox Arcana until I found out first hand from Skinny McGee. I know there was controversy[30], but I had no idea that it was so hot. I was not banned for sonething specific, but because my edits were "close" to someone else's. I don't think there was much investigation into that at all, and I feel that both Skinny McGee and the people who banned me have been biased against me for not good reason. I was not given the benfit or courtesy of even a comment on my talk page. All this was done behind my back.
  • I will not edit the Midnight Syndicate article, so long as Skinny McGee is warned from editing the Nox Arcana articles and from removing valid references to Nox Arcana from other pages. How does that sound to everyone? Ebonyskye 10:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)"

    Decline reason: "You are blocked for 48 hours because your contributions and checkuser data lead us to believe you are User:GuardianZ or someone close to him. Therefore the topic ban applies to you, and you may not edit any related articles. You are welcome to contribute on the talk page of the said articles after the block expires, since your edits appear to have been made in good faith. Please read the notice at the top of Talk:Midnight Syndicate. — -- lucasbfr talk 10:37, 23 August 2007 (UTC)"

Please make any further unblock requests by using the {{unblock}} template. However, abuse of the template may result in your talk page being protected.


Dear Lucas, that was fast. Did you even read my contributions? Most of what I posted WAS on talk pages, not in articles. Also, would you please enter this today on my behalf... I would appreciate the turn of fair play, if I am to be singled out for another person's wrongdoings.

[edit] Request from admin for equal punitive measures against Skinny McGee (Thatcher131 is resonably certain that Skinny McGee is Edward Douglas)

As a result of Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Midnight_Syndicate,, User:Skinny_McGee is barred from editing any articles related to Midnight Syndicate or Nox Arcana. He has broken his ban on 3 occasions and exhibits a strong bias toward any editor who even mentions the name of the former band member for whom Skinny McGee holds a strong aversion..
  • Adding a promotional link to the Midnight Syndicate page.[31]
  • Removal of content from the Nox Arcana's Darklore Manor album page.[32] and[33].
  • Skinny McGee is Lobbying for removal of content and to Prevent further investigation into references that relate to a Midnight Syndicate album credentials [34] calling a reference inappropriate (and it was not even posted on the band page).
  • He maliciously sought to ban an editor User:Ebonyskye, presenting slanted evidence against the person, which was taken at face value with no investigation of the content.

Thank you Ebonyskye 10:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Your block was made on behalf of the arbcom and supported by an other admin, who both reviewed your case. That's why I declined your unblock. The content of the contributions don't matter in the case of article bans. -- lucasbfr talk 11:02, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

OK. What about the other user (above) who edited those same pages. Does he get banned as well? I don't understand why I am banned for being in the "general" vicinity of someone's IP and he is not banned for editing when he is clearly in violation of said ban. Ebonyskye 11:16, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately administrators are not omniscient, we only become aware of problems when they are brought to our attention. I have reviewed the evidence page in the arbitration case and I am reasonably convinced that Skinny McGee is, or is associated with, Edward Douglas. As such, the prohibition against editing Midnight Syndicate and related articles applies to him as well. I will warn him of this and expect him to follow it in the future. I plan on leaving your block in place for the remainer of the 48 hours because in addition to editing these topics, you changed accounts to avoid scrutiny.
The arbitration case allows admins to ban editors from articles and talk pages, or even indefinitely from Wikipedia itself, for "aggressive biased editing." I don't see that from either of you, and I believe you can continue to have good input on the article talk pages. When you have a disagreement about sources or policy, you should try a request for comment or a request for third opinion, or Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance). These are mechanisms to attract the attention of neutral editors to give their opinions on disputes or make edits for you. You can request enforcement of the arbitration decision at WP:AE should it be necessary in the future. If after a reasonable period of time you can demonstrate that you and Skinny McGee can edit cooperatively and collaboratively without edit warring, you can appeal the probations and ask that they be lifted. Hope this helps. Thatcher131 14:30, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, Thacher. You said you are reasonably certain that Skinny McGee is Edward Douglas. I guess I feel that way too after this. I feel you are being unfair in NOT banning him. He made aggressions toward ME when all I did was cite a resource for another D&D album and cite an alternate source for something he disagreed with. I feel like I am being punished for his misdeeds of the past. If he is not to be punished for breaking the rules, then I guess I will have to go higher.

Here is my block request for Skinny McGee. I had a lot of time to look at his past edits and it is very suspicious that he only targeted me after I mentioned the name of Vargo in only one sentence. I am requesting that you submit this since I cannot. Ebonyskye 20:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New request for punative measures against Skinny McGee to be made to WP:AE

As a result of Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Midnight_Syndicate, Skinny_McGee is barred from editing any articles related to Midnight Syndicate or Nox Arcana.

  • Skinny McGee has broken his ban on 3 occasions and exhibits a strong (or t the very least suspicious) bias toward any editor who mentions the name of the former band member, Joseph Vargo, for whom Skinny McGee holds a strong aversion, as indicated in his past when calling the person a "dispicable human being." [35]
  • Removal of content from the Nox Arcana's Darklore Manor album[37] and[38]. Skinny McGee was previously found to be biased against Joseph Vargo, who is the frontman for Nox Arcana, and former producer of Midnight Syndicate. Again, this is reason for the ban.
  • Lobbying to Prevent further investigation into references that relate to Midnight Syndicate album credentials [39] calling a reference inappropriate (and it was not even posted on the band page).

Respectfully request a punitive block on user. Ebonyskye 20:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Wrongful allegations by Skinny McGee about what was posted by another user. The user (accused of bias) never said that Midnight Syndicate "copied" anyone. Read again. The user defined the album that "inspired" Midnight Syndicate.[40]. The part about it being similar was already in the article!
  • Another wrong accusation. What I stated was: Wizards of the Coast game designer Jason Carl had approached Joseph Vargo (executive producer for two of Midnight Syndicate's previous albums), who sent the band's Born of the Night and Realm of Shadows CDs to the gaming company for consideration a few years earlier. [41] and it is backed up by a letter I referred to from Wizards of the Coast.
  • I requested a review of the block against me, and it was summarily done (within 30 seconds of my request)[42] which means that no "review" was actually done at all.

All I am asking for is a fair shake. If I am banned just because my internet provider services some other guy who this Skinny McGee thinks is me, why should I be so humiliated like this. And if Skinny McGee had any decency at all, he could have approached me on my talk page and simply said something about the edits instead of going around behind my back to evey other editor and making false accusations. Obviously this guy has some major issues with that band, but he need not target a person who edits the page just because he doesn't like certaiin facts being brought to light. Ebonyskye 20:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thatcher131 coming up with excuses as to why he will not 'unblock' Ebonyskye but also will not 'block' Skinny McGee

  • I blocked you because I think you are or are affiliated with GuardianZ, based on the content of your edits. The IP evidence is just that extra 5%; if the usercheck I requested said you were editing from Australia when I believe GuardianZ edited from somewhere in the US (no need to say exactly where) then I would be perplexed by the similarity of content edits. Since you and GuardianZ edit from a similar location, then I am more confident that my judgement based on your content changes is reasonable.
  • As I understand it, one of the major sources of contention between GuardianZ (and now yourself) and Skinny McGee is over the role of Joseph Vargo. Both of you have been relying on personal views of events rather than reliable sources. This is one of the reasons you may not edit the article but only the talk pages. You are both free to suggest sources or to point out when sources are being (in your opinion) mis-used, but it will be up to non-involved editors to make the final editorial judgements about what the articles should say.
  • I looked at your links and do not see any discussion entries by Skinny McGee that seem excessively uncivil or aggressive. He explains that he made a couple of edits to the album article forgetting he was banned, then stopped. If GuardianZ and Skinny McGee had been doing that, I would have either warned them both or blocked them both. The issue of your block is not occasional edits to MS topics, but a deliberate attempt to evade dection by changing accounts (based on my conclusion that you are the same person as, or are associated with, GuardianZ, and the principle in the arbitration case Who's who. Thatcher131 21:05, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How Thatcher131 misread Skinny McGee's report, admits Ebonyskye's IP is not the same as Guardian's, and how all but 1 of the edits are not Ebonyskye's to start with

Thatcher said: I blocked you because I think you are or are affiliated with GuardianZ, based on the content of your edits. The IP evidence is just that extra 5%; if the usercheck I requested said you were editing from Australia when I believe GuardianZ edited from somewhere in the US (no need to say exactly where) then I would be perplexed by the similarity of content edits. Since you and GuardianZ edit from a similar location, then I am more confident that my judgement based on your content changes is reasonable.

Let me understand this. You're saying that my IP is close to this other guy's, but it's not the same. Is that correct? And it's OK for 15 other people to edit the page and 3 of them to post info on Joseph Vargo, but because I just so happen to be in the US, I am getting slammed for this? I made only one reference to Joseph Vargo. Look at what I edited. I only pointed out that he had done some stuff with Wizards of the Coast, which seemed to have opened things up band 2 years later. On the other hand this Skinny McGee KNEW he was banned (but forgot--give me a break). He stated he was banned right on the Midnight Syndicate discussion page, so I doubt he "forgot." Yet, you let him slide? How bogus is that? Is there someone higher up the admin ladder than you? Wiki prides itself on fairness and neutrality, but you are showing neither. Ebonyskye 22:49, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thatcher131 coming up with more excuses

  • I believe, based on his contributions, that Skinny McGee is closely associated with a past or present member of the band. I believe, based on your edits, that you are closely associated with a past or present member of the band. (For example, the information added here could only come directly from a band member since the only thing the cited letter says is "Thanks for the free CD" and does not have any information about how the project was initiated.) Therefore, under the terms of the arbitration case, neither you nor Skinny McGee may edit Midnight Syndicate or related articles. These bans apply to any single-purpose account that agressively edits these articles, and to any editor who is a past or present member of the band or close associate. If you object to my rationale for this ban, you may contact any other administrator or appeal to the Arbitration committee.
  • I further believe, as a separate but related matter, that you formerly edited from the GuardianZ account, or that you are familiar with and closely associated with that person. I base this judgement in part on checkuser findings that you edit from the same internet provider in the same city, but mostly on the content and point of view of your edits. The alternative is that you are a unrelated person who by coincidence lives in the same area, is a fan of the same band, has the same personal information about Joseph Vargo, and began editing Wikipedia just when GuardianZ stopped editing. I do not believe in that much coincidence. I blocked your account for 48 hours not because you edited certain articles in violation of your ban, but because abandoning the GuardianZ account in favor of a new account shows intent to deceive. In fact, you edited Nox Arcana back in April and have been editing articles from which you were banned ever since, while the only violation you can find by Skinny McGee was this week, which he has explained as a mistake which he agrees not to repeat. So I find no reason to block Skinny McGee at this time.
  • In fact, I do not believe that enforcing the letter of every Arbitration decision is always required. If it were the case that both you and Skinny McGee had been making minor and generally non-controversial edits to these articles since the Arbitration case was decided, I would take no action at all. After one of you complained, I would then enforce the topic ban on both of you in the future but apply no penalties for past edits which were peaceful. Your 48 hour block is specifically targeted because I believe you acted deceptively. You may appeal the block by emailing unblock-en-l@lists.wikimedia.org. If you feel I have used poor judgement or misused my administrative status, you may file a request for comment. Thatcher131 01:38, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thatcher131 coming up with even more excuses - inaccurately citing things that Ebonyskye did not originally post

I never HAD an account here, and I am NOT signing on as an alias. And, I will send you my address in an email, if you MUST know. Also, I never said anything but what the Legion/Born of the Night website stated. And the letter does NOT say "Thanks for the free cd." It clearly shows the Wizards of the Coast guy acknowledging having received a cd from Vargo, and clearly states to Vargo, "You're right, this is terrific gaming music." I read nothing else into that. The business card next to the letter shows the Wizards guy is a "game designer." So, what did I edit that was not common knowledge?Ebonyskye 02:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

"game designer Jason Carl had approached Joseph Vargo (executive producer for two of Midnight Syndicate's previous albums), who sent the band's Born of the Night and Realm of Shadows CDs to the gaming company for consideration a few years earlier." The letter does not say that Carl approached Vargo, it does not say that Vargo had previously sent two albums to WotC, and it says nothing to support the change of responsibility for the album from Douglas and Goszka to Vargo. I'm sorry, but you will have to find someone else to lift your block or the article ban. I have explained your alternatives. Thatcher131 02:10, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Thatcher, try reading the resource! [43] It states: Joseph introduced Born of the Night (and, a year later, Realm of Shadows) to Wizards of the Coast game designer, Jason Carl, which eventually resulted in the licensing deal for the D&D soundtrack. Joseph also introduced the music to Tom Savini and many others at Cleveland area horror conventions that Monolith attended. Next time you accuse someone get your facts straight. I did NOT have some sort of insider info. You just didn't pay attention.Ebonyskye 03:45, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

First, that is not the citation you originally used, and contains more information than in the letter you originally cited. Second, the letter and the email are undated, making their evidenciary value questionable. Third, the letters as well as the more extensive description are self-published on a web site controlled by Vargo and are therefore considered both original research and not a reliable source, as defined by Wikipedia policy. Finally, the very fact that Vargo decided he needed to post scans of his personal mail (along with the envelopes) on a personal website shows that there is some very deep dispute going on, and as Wikipedia is not a battleground is a core policy, convinces me even more that you have no business editing this or related articles, per the terms of the arbitration case. Good night. Thatcher131 07:02, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, That is the original citation. In fact J Milburn posted the citation from the website. I only cited the letter itself. See J Milburn's post[44] so, if you have a problem with that, why are you harrassing me for it? Secondly, per Wiki policy, the resource does not negate the fact that the contact happened and that the letter is real. The very fact that Vargo felt he had to post it only shows that he is backing up what is said on that website. Don't you think it is odd that Midnight Syndicate has no proof except what they say on their website, and yet you accept that? Isn't what the band says in an interview original research as well? It's not like a reporter investigated it. It's in the band's own words. At least the Legion site shows proof in the form of that letter. Also, the letter may not be dated but the postal stamp is dated May 1999. If they were going to fake it, don't you think they would put a date on the letter itself? Or, would you date a letter that you are sending as a friendly coorespondence. I certainly don't date the letters I send my friends, especially handwritten brief "thankyou" notes. I just write it mail it. If you contest that this is original research, then so is every single interview with Midnight Syndicate that is cited. I think you are warping the policy to fit what you would like to see promoted on this page instead of what really happened. Ebonyskye 01:39, 25 August 2007 (UTC)