Talk:Earl of Oxford
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What does it mean "the title is dormant but not extinct"? And my recollection is that the objections to Asquith being made Earl of Oxford came from the Harleys, not the de Veres. Adam 09:30, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
- It has remainder to heirs male whatsoever, i.e. in default of male heirs of the 1st Earl, it goes to the male heirs of his father, and then to those of his father's father, etc., ad infinitum. As such, somewhere in the world there is a rightful Earl of Oxford of the 1142 creation, but we have absolutely no viable way of finding out who it is. As to the objections, I think you're right — my recollection is that the de Veres objected to Harley's creation, and the Harleys in turn objected to Asquith's creation. Proteus (Talk) 19:27, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
It would follow from what you say about the original peerage, that if there were any extant de Veres, they would be able to claim the title, so it would seem there aren't any (except the character in To the Manor Born). Adam 00:22, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
It dates from before the time when surnames were fixed. Aristocrats of that period often changed their names when they moved or acquired new land (so a 11th century de Vere could move to Anytown and change his name to de Anytown). This means that there's not even any way of finding out the rightful Earl of Oxford's surname, let alone who he is. Proteus (Talk) 09:07, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
Is there even any clear evidence that there aren't any male line descendants of the 1st Earl? I mean, he lived in the 12th century, one would imagine it wouldn't be hard for some descendants to go missing. And if it's only male-line descendants of paternal ancestors of the 1st Earl who are under consideration, there is no reason to think that the "rightful earl" will have ever borne the surname "de Vere." john k 07:33, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Why "Mortimer" by the way? Harley's page offers no clue. —Tamfang 18:54, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
"The family seat is The Manor House, near Frome, Somerset." Which family? The present tense suggests Asquith, but ... —Tamfang 18:54, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
