Talk:Earl of Moray

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There are earls of Moray all over Scotland previous to the date stated here as first creation. See Scottish monarchs family tree for examples. Muriel 14:44, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Which of these (if any) is the bonnie Earl o'Moray?

That would be James Stewart, 2nd Lord Doune, husband of Elizabeth Stewart, 2nd Countess of Moray, who was Earl of Moray by right of his wife. Proteus (Talk) 13:08, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The earlier Earls here are surely Stewarts rather than Stuarts, although I cannot say for sure at what point the spelling changed, probably during the 16th century.PatGallacher (Talk) 23:40*, 08 Jan 2005 (UTC)

My source calls them "Stewart" up to and including the 4th Earl, and "Stuart" thereafter, so I've change the article. Proteus (Talk) 23:58, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I added some of the early ones. Ardric47 01:32, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Spelling of Mormaer/Mormaor

I chose to use the spelling "mormaor" because it is closest to the Scottish Gaelic "mórmhaor" and because it is the preferred spelling in the Oxford English Dictionary. Is there a better reason to use the other spelling? Ardric47 05:31, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Numbering of creations

Wait a minute. You may be right that Agnes Dunbar was never Countess of Moray, but if so then this raises questions about the numbering of the creations. Surely then her son John Dunbar was 1st Earl of Moray 2nd Creation, and the subsequent creations all go up one. Or is the numbering well established? Can you quote some serious reference work on the Scottish peerage, preferably an online one? We should avoid original research. PatGallacher 17:24, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] David Stewart?

The article on James II mentions a "David Stewart, Earl of Moray", 1456-1457, who died in infancy. RandomCritic 05:27, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] William Comyn, jure uxoris Earl of Buchan

There is a gap of about 100 years between the Moramers of Moray and the first Earls. William Comyn held the title "Warden of Moray" during this gap in time. Does anyone know if he fits in during this period as perhaps a stand in between the two periods? Bobbacon 09:00, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I have also just found another source that specifically states he was appointed "guardian of the Earldom of Moray" in 1222 from Alexander II of Scotland. "Guardian" is not the same as Earl- perhaps this fills in the gap between the Moramers of Moray and the first Earls. The only assumption I can make is that perhaps the Scottish crown appoined people to look after the area during this time, as opposed to giving them a hereditary title? The exisiting Wikipedia article says he became warden of Moray in 1212. I think this is the same as guardian. If he recieved the title from Alexander II my guess is that the 1222 date is more likely than 1212 as he didnt become king until 1214. Bobbacon 08:29, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I have found other "Guardians of Moray" (from Google...) these are "Sir Reginald le Chen" who was appointed by Edward I, I cannot find the dates for him, but I know there where in fact three Sir Reginald le Chens who were grandfather, father and son which confuses things a lot. Bobbacon 08:43, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
The holders of the Earldom of Moray between William fitz Duncan and Randolph were the Scottish kings, although they never use the title of any of the earldoms they held. Effective administration of the earldom was conducted by the "thanes" (or toisechs) and the sheriffs in the coastal district, with the Lord of Badenoch controlling the interior (Badenoch was part of the "county" (i.e. Earldom or Mormaerdom) and bishopric of Moray). BTW, Mormaer and Earl were the same thing ... different terminology is just arbitrary convention which suits Moray fine, but is terrible for all the other earldoms/mormaerdoms. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 02:17, 6 August 2007 (UTC)