Talk:Dutch East Indies

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the article says that "Indonesia declared independence". This should be changed into something like "a group of nationalists among others Sukarno declared the indepence of Indonesia." I am not an expert in this matter, but the current wording sounds incorrect and logically impossible. Andries 12:01, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] importance

I would support the change of importance as it is basically an earlier part of indonesian history SatuSuro 11:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox is misleading

The info box in question

Use of the info box forces information to be shown in a misleading manner. It removes any nuance and provision for complexity - so simplistic its inaccurate. It's like putting an elephant into a baby's suit. Ridiculous. I've tried to put the required complexity in, but the technical parameters of the box don't allow it.

  • The Dutch were thrown out during the Japanese occupation (Mar 1942 to Aug 1945). The Japanese destroyed almost all of the colony's economic, administrative and social structures. All the renowned Indonesia scholars I've come across thus put 1942 as the end of the colony.
  • Indonesian nationalists declared Indonesian independence in August 1945 and received wide-spread support across the archipelago and internationally.
  • That the Dutch recognised Indonesian sovereignty in 1949 doesn't meant that is when the colony was finished. See points above. Indonesians argue convincingly that the Dutch only recognised Indonesian sovereignty, ie it wasn't up to the Dutch to grant.
  • The Dutch government later recognised 1945 as the date of Indonesian independence.

I'm trying to make all this fit into the info box, but I'm not having much luck. If i don't succeed, I will remove the box and only support it's re-inclusion if it can be made to cater for the complexity listed above. --Merbabu (talk) 03:08, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I am not a fan of these infoboxes for former countries at all. The Spanish Empire had the same issues and it was eventually just removed. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 13:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Ps, I should have said since my last post here I did update it here. it's certainly a poor compromise as far as I'm concerned. I spent ages trying different approaches and for technical and editorial reasons it still contains POV and is actually less clear. I'd rather not have it, and there is nothing that cannot be expressed much better in a simple lead and which caters to the nuances and all POV's in a neutral manner. Wait and see how we go. --Merbabu (talk) 13:18, 7 June 2008 (UTC)