Talk:Drywall

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[edit] Anonymous users

I wonder why so many editors of the Drywall page are anonymous. Take a look: http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/f.php?pagetitle=Drywall --Achim 23:20, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The name sheetrock

≈Also called sheetrock in many parts of the united states - --24.16.167.207 06:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

is this what is called 'plasterboard' in the UK? It is still plastered over in the UK -- beware USPOV: we need a general approach. -- Tarquin 17:07, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Sheetrock is a brand name of drywall, for the record.

[edit] The word plasterboard

I believe plasterboard and drywall are one and the same. It's usually skim plastered over when installed in the UK, AFAIK. But I'm not a builder, so I'm not in a position to be authoritative. -- The Anome 17:12, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC) There are two different products here. The plaster lath board is usually 2' by 4' and is grey in colour. It is applied to the studs and then plastered over. It is an alternative to the metal or wood lath used in the past. Drywall is usually 4 feet wide (or 1200 mm) and has a tapered or recessed edge which has a joint treatment applied before priming and painting. 18:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

In some installations it is still covered with several thin coats of plaster rather than directly painted.

When directly painted, are the nail-heads/screw-heads and joins between boards just painted over, and therefore visible as bumps, or is some method used to hide them? -- The Anome 17:19, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)

The nails and joints and corners are covered in mud (also called joint compound) usually in two or three coats with much messy sanding in between. But the entire board is not covered. By the way some in the US call it plasterboard still. Rmhermen 17:24, Sep 30, 2003 (UTC)
I agree with Rmhermen, however, there ARE contractors out there known to mud the ENTIRE surface that is drywalled. Likely due to inexperience? I'm not sure, However, my understanding from talking to my father who has 15+ yr's exp drywalling says that this is not a normal practice and is a waste of time and material. The normal practice is to mud the seams and over the screws and anywhere else that is uneven. Magu 04:40, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

In the U.S. at least, a lot of the higher-end construction utilizes "skim coated" "Blue-board" (a sheetrock/plasterboard/drywall product). The coating is plaster instead of joint compound, and provided a harder, smoother, more uniform surface that is somewhat resistant to minor dings and abrasions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.151.129.4 (talk) 20:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plasterboard and "Cheap" (lowest-cost) Comments

Metal Lath or even thin strips of cedar or other timber (home-made lath) predated drywall. So, the term "plasterboard" may be in use, but it's really just blarney. One story behind the switch from lath and plaster to factory-made boards, is that price-fixing on behalf of the plaster trade caused the emergence of the boards, which then shiften trade jurisdiction away from the plasterers and towards the carpenters. I have yet to see any real documentation about that but I know from decades of construction experience, that this would not be any particular surprise. And yes, I believe that drywall is cheap stuff, compared against its more massive competitors, such as masonry and cast concrete. Also, in passive fire protection, the stuff is a huge liability. Drywall assemblies "relax" towards the fire. They shift and move back and forth a tad, but mainly sag towards the flame in a standard 100ft² or 9m² test furnace. This is a documented fact. The walls do this but the penetrants don't follow this movement, which puts a strain on the firestops, that is deliberately kept out of test regimes for firestops in drywall assemblies. All drywall assembly fire-resistance tests typically use FULL SHEETS, with as few joints as possible. In the field, they cut and fit and jig-saw-puzzle all over the place. They test one one straight wall. In a masonry or cast concrete wall, I'm not concerned in the slightest about a chnage in direction. Corners with drywalls are a different kettle of fish though and the use of any corners in reality are really a leap of faith. They call this "grandfathering". There is a lot of it going on, particularly when it comes to drywall. However, it's cheap, and the issue is too complex to ever become an election topic or anything. So, I applaud the use of the term "lowest cost" when referring to such insubstantial building methods as drywall. The tolerance of stuff like this is what makes North American buildings in particular vulnerable to rapid destruction by strong wind. See hurricane preparedness. I am cognisant, of course, that drywall is not on the outside of a building, but the issue is one of culture, which translates to the construction of entire buildings in this lightweight manner.--Achim 19:23, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Screws

Any chance someone could add some info about the screws used for drywalling? ----- Check at Home Depot. Screws can be installed one at a time or with a strip of 15 or so in a special drywall screwdriver.134.163.253.128 09:09, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah. The screws are long and thin, with a sharp point, a flat head (type e here, more or less), and widely-spaced threads. (About 1/16 of an inch from each thread to the next, much more than most other screws.) They self-pilot and drive very quickly. You can easily drive one into pine (such as the 2x4 "studs" in most walls) with a plain old ordinary manual screwdriver. They're usually black. (Update: can't do the photo, sorry; this old digital camera just can't zoom in tight enough on something that small to show the detail adequately.) Drywall nails are also long and narrow, with a sharp point, usually black, and have rings on them so that they hold better. Sometimes drywallers will put a few screws in first, to get to the point where they can let go of the sheet, and then finish up with nails. For ceilings they usually use the screws exclusively, because they hold better than the nails. Drywall screws do not stand up particularly well to lateral force, i.e., bending; whether this is because they are not very big around, or because of the black material they are made from, or a combination, I don't know. This is all from personal experience. Feel free to augment the article with any of this info that seems sufficiently pertinent; I put in one parenthetical remark about their general structure. --Jonadab, 2006 Jun 11.
I added some more details about screws. Not sure how to cite it but I work construction and much of my work is hanging drywall. Bluecollarchessplayer 04:23, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

The photo shown at the front of this piece should be changed. It shows drywall hung on a wall with screws (they better be screws!) spaced vertically more than the 16 inches recommended for a properly hung board.66.234.209.188 14:50, 16 September 2006 (UTC)…cateyedude

I originally posted this question. I have since aquired a good digital camera. I don't have any drywall screws but when I get a chance I'll get a picture of one for the article. I initially posted the question not for personal information, jsut information I thought would be good to have in the article. Magu 04:44, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I have access now to a better camera than before (still consumer-grade, but much newer), and was able to get a mediocre shot that at least shows the general design. It's not the clearest photo ever taken, but I added it to the article for now, until someone can take a better one. --Jonadab, 2008 January. —Preceding comment was added at 18:59, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Screw Types: Generally you will find two types of screws at your local home improvement depot. Coarse and fine thread. Coarse thread are for wood studs and fine thread are steel studs. Many lengths are available, generally 1-1/4" for 1/2" drywall and 1-5/8" for 5/8" drywall. Contrary to the above statement, many drywallers I have worked with will hand nail a sheet until it supports itself then come back and screw off the sheet later. Mostly because it is easier to hold a hammer in your nail bag than a screw gun. When driving nails or screws the most important thing to remember is the strength of the drywall is in the paper. If you drive the nail or screw through the paper it will loose its strength. The fastener should be driven so it dimples the surface but does not tear the paper. Professional hangers have special drywall guns that have an adjustable tip that will countersink the screw and not tear the paper. Aproxamatley one pound of screws will apply nine 4 x 8 x 1/2" sheets of drywall. A little less for 5/8" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.54.195.73 (talk) 03:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] drywall bidding

Measure lineal footage of walls and multiply by height in feet will give you the square footage of wall space. Example: a 12' x 15' room will have 54 lineal feet of wall, if the wall height is 8' you end up with 432 square feet of wall space. Each sheet of 4x8 will cover 32 square feet. Divide the total square footage by 32 and this will give you the minimum amount of sheets. In the example above the result would be 13.5 sheets. I generally add 10% to this number, for waste, so I would order 15 sheets of 4 x 8 x 1/2". The ceiling is figured the same way, except 5/8" material is used. 1/2" on a ceiling will sag over a short amount of time. There is a product called 1/2" No Sag but generally not for the weekend warrior. In the example above the ceiling has 180 sq feet, divided by 32 plus 10% I would order 7 sheets of 4 x 8 x 5/8". Fasteners are approximately nine sheets per pound, so I would order 3 pounds of 1-1/4" screws for the walls and 2 pounds for the ceiling. I generally will order a little extra because, I would much rather return a $1 pound of screws at my leisure when the job is done rather than run to Home Depot with my hair on fire because I am 1/2 pound short. 3 boxes of 3-1/2 gallon drywall compound will cover 1000 square feet of drywall for tapping. Texture varies greatly depending on the type of texture. Tape is approximately 12' per sheet plus corners. The tape is very inexpensive, purchase extra, see above. Outside corner is purchased is figured per piece. Actually performing the job is where the true skill is required. If you have gotten this far and are not lost, good luck. See you at the local home improvement depot!

[edit] drywall compound

A long time ago I added a parenthetical noting that drywall compound (which now seems to be called "joint compound" in the article) is also known as "spackle" (no writeup of spackle), which was summarily removed by an anon who said it's not the same thing. I am no expert on this and I do not dispute that spackle can refer to other compounds, but is it not the case that drywall compound is commonly referred to as spackle, or is this a complete mistake? I have definitely heard this term used by builders in both Pennsylvania and New York, and also to the activity of plastering seams and nails as "spackling," so correct or not it might be worth mentioning. NTK 04:24, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

"Spackle" is the trademark for a compound used to patch holes and irregularities in walls before painting or papering. Muralo Company owns the trademark, although it's pretty much genericized by now. Things like "Polyfilla" or "Resurfo" are two other brand names I am familiar with. They are usually non-shrinking and Plaster of Paris-based , unlike drywall compound. But that doesn't stop certain construction tradespeople from calling drywall joint compound spackle, and from using it as a patching/spackling compound for which there are better products. Luigizanasi 04:51, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
The common term here is "plaster"! So you would either talk about getting your wall plastered or stopped... --Limegreen 07:46, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Joint compound comes in two types: Either ready-mixed or powder form. The ready-mixed is made with latex and other fillers is supplied in plastic tubs or cardboard boxes with a plastic liner to contain the mix. This material dries like a paint and resealed container will keep the material workable. The powder form requires on-site water and will set in 90-360 minutes. Generalstaff 18:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] references for the "most common building material used globally"

Hi, Can the writer please present some references to where he got this data ("most common building material used globally") from? thanks Ashan vpss 15:09, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

That statement was put in by User:Amaxson back in March 2005. See [1]. Maybe a question on his/her talk page might be more effective. Luigizanasi 16:24, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I can vouch for that. The stuff is cheap and it has product certification, is eligible for bounding and that's what drives the commercial success of construction products, pretty much exclusively.--Achim 02:12, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Really? There's a huge building boom going in in Asia, but (from what I've seen) I don't think they've ever heard of the stuff. Ewlyahoocom 06:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Out of curiousity, what do they use for interior walls?
I'm pretty sure the most common building material used globally is wood, the only other possible contender being cement, with drywall a rather distant third. In much of the third world drywall is too expensive to even be considered, and in the first and second worlds drywall is normally attached to (wait for it) wooden studs (except in urban high-rise construction, which accounts for a very small percentage of construction overall). However, drywall is certainly _one of the_ most common and most important building materials used globally and is used for most interior residential and white-collar wall surfaces in the developed world. Note, however, that the wording in the article is qualified, "for the construction of interior walls and ceilings". With that qualification it's _probably_ true, since in the third world they mostly don't construct interior walls and ceilings. Nonetheless, a citation would not go amiss. --Jonadab
I hope this adds something to the discussion: at least down here in Brazil, I only saw drywall used as a cheap material to build cheap tiny apartments. "Real" houses are built with masonry, which is by far the most common building material over here. Wood is also almost not used at all.
Yeah, masonry (especially cement, but also other forms, including ceramic tile, brick, stone, ...) is extremely common also. If all masonry were considered as a single material, it is almost certainly more common than wood, but I was thinking of cement, stone, brick, etc. as distinct materials. I suppose cement might even be more common globally than wood (I did say it was the other possible contender), but in any case my point was that wood and cement are both (globally) much more common in general than drywall. However, as I said before, these things are used in a wider variety of ways, including for structurally significant stuff; whereas, drywall is only used for interior wall (and ceiling) surfaces, for the most part, the same sorts of uses to which plaster was put (and, in places with cheap labor, sometimes still is). --Jonadab

Maybe not the most common, but I believe the most wide-spread building material is the concrete block. How many places are they not used? --Kalmia 07:49, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, concrete blocks/bricks/masonary is much more predominant, especially in countries where timber is extremely scarce i.e. South East Asia. - Ozzykhan 20:04, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
In most of sub-Saharan Africa, for instance, wood is fairly common but cement not so much (though they do use mud block, which could be considered a form of masonry in general). Still, cement is indeed very common, certainly more common in general than drywall, which was the point here. --Jonadab

[edit] Image captions

Wow! Those are some looooong image captions. Ewlyahoocom 16:47, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't look like they are necessary. Is it a plumber's safety manual or something? I think its too big of a detour from drywall theme. Saulelis 15:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, this article seems to be more about fire safety regulations then about what drywall is, suggest splitting the majority of the fire safety info off into a dedicated article, what do you guys reckon? 3:20 21 May 2006 (BST)

I agree, it reads like some kind of fire safety manual. It's not directly relevant to the article, but it seems like good info. It would be good to move it into a separate article, or maybe even a dedicated sub-section within this article. Hcsteve 17:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely. Those image captions are so preposterously long that they push relevant images, such as the screwdriver, off the bottom of the article. They should at minimum be turned into a section, but frankly I'd rather see them in a separate article or even just plain tersified. Additionally, there seems to be more than a little implied advocacy, as if the writer is arguing for the establishment of an entire industry of fire-safety subcontractors, and an encyclopedia article is not the appropriate venue for such advocacy. --Jonadab, 2006 Jun 11
I shortened the captions. If anyone gets around to doing a separate article about the fire safety details, feel free to look in the article history for the information they contained. --Jonadab, 2006 Jun 12

[edit] New look

Hey,

Just edited the article and added new headings, a new section for the drywall market and made few other minor changes...What do you think?

[edit] Housing boom image

Is the last image, "housing boom" infringes any copyright laws? I'm not sure...please someone clarify

That is a worthwhile question. The fair-use reason given in the image history does not sound like a usual fair-use reason to me, but IANACL. I've left it in place for now, but someone should review this. --Jonadab

[edit] two layers at right angles

For soundproofing or fire resistance, two layers of drywall are sometimes used laid at right angles.

That doesn't make sense to me - should this read "parallel"?Unsigned comment by User:Singkong2005

I guess it's not clear. The first layer is laid with, say, the long edge vertical. the second layer is laid on top of it with the long edge of the sheet horizontal. So the long edges of the drywall sheets are at right angles to eache other. I hope this clarifies it. I can't think of a better way of putting it right now. If you have an inspiration, please fix it. Luigizanasi 05:47, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drywall market

I corrected a misquote in the Drywall market in North America section, as it previously said the average home instead of the average new home as the source specified. But still, the source baffles me, as they say that an average new home has 7.31 metric tons of gypsum, which to my mind is quite a lot. They make it out to be 571 square meters, which in my calculation makes it 12,8 kilograms per square meter. Now that's some sturdy drywall. At [1] you can have a look at average weights for one manufacturer, close in my experience to the ones I've handled. How can the average new American home be built with an average of 19 mm thick drywall - 10 and 13 are regular sizes for normal walls? And no, they're not counting the waste i.e. the gross amount of wallboard that is brought to the construction site, as they specifically state that the houses contain that amount of wallboard.

I'm not sure what to think of the amount either, even an average of 571 square meters sounds like a lot for an average new home, seeing as how not all houses are built with the material. There are still wood-based alternatives (even plywood in some cases) in use, and of course the various kinds of bricks and concretes that don't require a drywall on top of them - and both are used in interior walls as well.

Also, the first sentence of the Drywall market section seems a bit weird - it says "North America hails as one of the largest gypsum board users in the world with a total wallboard plant capacity of 40 billion sq. feet per year" but how does production capacity automatically correlate to usage? Sounds kind of like saying Africa is one of the largest users of diamonds in the world, what with the mines and all.

Given the weight of typical drywall, shipping is a major concern and I would venture to guess that most drywall is shipped and used within 1500 km from the place of manufacture (vs. diamonds which are easily shipped worldwide). As for the production capacity to usage correlation you are probably partly correct. This begs the question, however, of a business' decision to create the production facilities without sufficient market demand to support those facilities. In the end, it will all be market-related and without an in-depth study it may be very difficult to determine actual usage with respect to localities on a global scale. With this in mind, maybe it would be best to remove the statement altogether? Any further comments? --Jared Madsen 02:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
On the matter of the name of the article, is drywall really a good name? Wouldn't a technical name like gypsum wallboard be better? I haven't ever done building work in an English-speaking country so I'm no expert on the matter, but drywall sounds more like workman's lingo than an exact term to me. Someone who has experience with construction in English might want to take a look at this, I'm out of my depth here. CarlosCoppola 10:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
On the weight & quantity, I did a calculation on my 1288 sq. ft., probably less than the current average new house in North America. Roughly 5,900 square feet of drywall on the main floor (not counting the finished basement) or 550 square metres. Assuming it is all half-inch (12.5 mm) drywall (the standard for walls, ceilings are often the thicker 5/8 inch), this amounts to 6.85 cubic metres of gypsum. According to Glover's Pocket Ref, gypsum board is 845.8 kg per m3, giving about to 5,800 kg of gypsum in my house. Given that new houses are on average bigger than mine, and than many contain more than one finished floor, the seven tonnes is probably not far off.
On the name, from my Canadian perspective, either is fine unless "drywall" is not commonly used in the UK or Australia, in which case it should be changed. Luigizanasi 20:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

The terms drywall and sheetrock are not used in the UK. Its called plasterboard, and the walls are called stud walls, or sometimes frame walls. However 'drywall' is a term with huge usage worldwide, so I'm not sure there's good reason to object to an article called drywall. Tabby (talk) 12:27, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Levels of Drywall finish

Anybody else think that the different levels of drywall finish as defined at http://www.nationalgypsum.com/literature/GA-214-96.pdf are relevant? ·64.231.61.62 14:01, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move / Rename page

I am going to move this page to Gypsum board. Many names are more common in different parts of the world, but it is all made of gypsum, right? The other names can redirect to the gypsum board page. --Kalmia 07:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I just reverted the name change. I count about 10 links to "Gypsum board" and 100 links to "Drywall" from other pages, so on that basis I would say Drywall is the more common name. This isn't exactly a fledgling page either, its been around for three years and a hundred people have contributed to it, so if you want to propose renaming it, put it to a vote and get a consensus. —Kymacpherson 12:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citing References & May Require Cleaning Up Tags

I think that the tag about this article not meeting Wikipedia requirements has been on this article since May of 2006 can now be removed. The tag about not citing references can also be removed as there are now 4 references listed. I just wanted to make sure that everyone else was on the same concensus as me before I went and removed them. Thanks - Eric 22:54, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Tags removed as suggested. --Achim 23:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Installation

It is mentioned in the Article that: Drywall screws have a curved, bugle-shaped top, allowing them to self-pilot and install rapidly without punching through the paper cover. These screws are set slightly into the drywall.
I have seen many documents and certificates that according them the screws are penetrated through the paper cover and gypsum board. Could you please anybody advice. --Bakhtiyari 11:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DRYWALL INSTALLATION AND FINISHING PROCESS

TROUGH THE YEARS IN BUSINESS PEOPLE HAD BEEN CONCERN ABOUT HOW HARMFUL SHEETROCK DUST AND JOINT COMPOUND DUST IS TO THE HUMAN BODY. MANY PEOPLE BELIVE THAT IS NOT HARMFULL AT ALL, OTHERS THAT IT IS, BUT IT HAS TO BE UP TO SOME POINT.

WE WANT TO KNOW!!!

PLEASE WRITE AN ARTICLE ON THAT MATTER.

THANK YOU. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.37.150.249 (talk) 15:26, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

An encyclopedia is not a venue for original research. Original articles of that nature need to be published first in other kinds of sources (e.g., magazines and journals), so that there are secondary sources to consult (and possibly cite), before it would be appropriate to address the matter in an encyclopedia article. --Jonadab —Preceding comment was added at 19:29, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
But it tastes so good :D Nimmo (talk) 07:38, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sheetrock redirect

Sheetrock is a brand name of the USG corporation so isn't it kind of wrong to redirect it directly to the article without any mention of them? 24.149.201.226 (talk) 20:36, 31 March 2008 (UTC)