Talk:Drifting (motorsport)

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[edit] Drawbacks?

Could somebody speak to the drawbacks of drifting? I don't know much about racing, but I got the impression that many professional drivers don't drift due to the loss of speed or control.

I read this at club4ag.com:

"With a clean lap of the track without passing, a smooth neutral cornering is the fastest way around. However, a driver can rarely get past another car by tracing the same line and obeying the laws of braking points...A drifting car is losing time because the traction and lateral grip is lower on a tire with skidding going on.

There are those who argue that "grip" style driving is the fastest way...that drifting is a slow way aroud corners... In theory this is very true... But, in multiple car competitions, the more options the driver has in terms of his line, braking points and skill, the more chances he'll have to pass the leading car that's blocking his "proper line."

In typical paved-course racing situations with modern tires, there is no usual need to "drift" per se, though tires are at their maximum grip when they are sliding just slightly (4-10 degrees or so). A car slideing at an angle of 4 degrees would not appear to be "drifting" to an outside observer. Sliding beyond this angle, producing a visible and showy drift, will decrease the maximum lateral acceleration and hence the maximum cornering speed will go down.
The club4ag article is correct in that a slide might be used to block a pass or otherwise put a driver in a better position with respect to other cars in a wheel to wheel race, but it's not common.
Racing on loose surfaces like dirt, gravel, or snow, or on poor tires, often involves "drifting" to set the car up for a higher corner exit speed. This sacrifices a little corner speed for a lot of straight line speed between corners. It's only worth the tradeoff in situations like this where corner speed is already very low.
This article is about the sport of drifting, where the goal is just to drift skillfully, not necessarily to go as fast as possible. — AKADriver ☎ 21:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Lets see, accidentally topping off spectators is one down side (ever see Saudi drifting?)... 24.168.64.206 23:22, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Drifting is indeed slower than grip turning, there are some uses for it, like already stated. It all depends on the actual turn. Kalga-han

Again, whatever drawbacks there are in racing are sort of outside the scope of the article - the article describes the sport of drifting, and there are (obviously) no disadvantages to drifting at a drifting event.
As far as the Saudi stuff goes, that also is more stunting than drifting since the goal is not skillful driving, but rather individual feats of recklessness. Legal drift sanctioning bodies are subject to the same liability to provide for the safety of their fans as any racing asanctioning body. — AKADriver ☎ 18:08, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I remember, when I was in elementary school in the '60s, checking out a book on Racing from my local library. As it turns out, the author was a child star but I can't remember who. (I think it was Tony Dow, who played Wally Cleaver on 'Leave it to Beaver' but I'm not sure.)

In that book, I remember the description of drifting and how it was slower going through the turn, but what really mattered was how fast you were going when you came out of the turn, and that's why driftng was important.

But if a child star turned author in the '60s was writing about drifting, why does this page talk about it like it's something new and something the Japanese invented? - TCav 01:45, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

As the intro states, this article is primarily about the sport of drifting, in which the point is to drift in a showy fashion and be scored by judges, not to get around a race track as quickly as possible. The sport of drifting is new and is something the Japanese invented. TomTheHand 18:47, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other observations

Just general tidying up. Any objections to the changes suggested below:

"In the United Kingdom, one of its first drift contests was hosted in 2002 by the OPT Drift Club"

I would rephrase this: "One of the first drifting competitions in Europe was hosted in 2002 by the OPT drift club at Turweston..."


"Sometimes the judges cannot agree, or cannot decide, or the crowd violently disagrees with the judge's decision. "

Colourful description, rather than factual. I have yet to see a D1 crowd resort to violence! How about: "Or a crowd vocally disagrees with the judge's decision"


"In such cases more passes may be run until a winner is produced."

Add "In the event of apparently close or tied runs, crowds often demonstrate their desire for another run with chants of 'one more time'"


"Drifting techniques"

Surely this should be 'Techniques for inducing drift'?

"or Scandinavian flick[9]"

This is not what a Scandinavian flick is (At least as I've always been taught!) and reference to it here needs to be removed. A Scandanavian flick does involve angling the vehicle away from the apex, but there the similarity ends, as during a Scandinavian flick, one then locks the wheels and engages the clutch to maintain a straight slide, steers into the apex and then releases the brakes and clutch to cause an immediate and sharp turn.

"A proper mechanical limited slip differential (LSD) is essential for drifting. Open diffs and viscous diffs cannot be controlled during a sustained slide."

Should read "is almost essentail" as drifting is not technically impossible without a mechanical LSD: a good viscous LSD works, but is simply inferior.


"Because of the large sideways forces, the driver must be retained firmly by a bucket seat, and preferably five point harness."

Again: It's not essential per se. Should read "Because of the large sideways forces, drivers find it preferable to be retained firmly by a bucket seat, and five point harness."

Also add to the paragraph: "Many drivers favour additional gauges to monitor such things as boost levels, oil, intake and coolant temperatures"


Addition to the 'body' section:

"Due to the nature of the hobby, drift cars are typically involved in many minor accidents. Thus, those involved with the sport tend to avoid expensive or easily damaged body kits and custom paintwork. Typically drift cars will show signs of body damage: dents, cracked bumpers and applications of duct tape."

"Tires" "...On the back, hard-compound tires are used, quite often second-hand ones tend to end up in a cloud of smoke."

Colourful rather than factual. Just needs formalising.

"More advanced drivers require the most grip possible from all 4 tires."

Add: "...so as to retain control adequately during high speed drifts."


"However these tires are generally not available to the public, and only to drift teams at the moment."

Add: "...furthermore, they are not permitted in many competitions, as they are seen as giving an unfair advantage to teams with the funding to utilise them, as they are currently too expensive to be used by the amateur competitor."


And for the preservation of our sanity, can we either cite or remove the comments about the Civic winning the Willow Springs competition!

Siranui 14:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)Siranui

I cited the bottom bit as I wrote that from a magazine I still own and made changes to the top bit. Feel free to make changes as you know what the Edit button is for. Willirennen 00:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I would prefer the suggestions to be reviewed prior to me making changes to the main page. If nobody has a problem, I'll then go make them. Additionally, I really don't feel that a tuning magazine that you own is not a suitable source for Wikipedia. Firstly, it is a secondary source itself, and the only verification of it that we have is yourself (making it a tertiary source and certainly not suitable for encyclopedic inclusion). We have no way to verify the source independantly, and there seems no other reference to it anywhere on the Net (except references stemming from this Wiki entry). I'm not saying that you are a liar, merely pointing out that it would be amazingly bad form for the article to contain such intangable information: It would be the equivelant of dictionaries including the word 'qrhweongfksd' based on the fact that I tell them that I have a letter from the Queen of England containing the word. Additionally, the source itself is very questionable as regards reliability: tuning magazines habitually fail to get their facts straight. Maybe if we could get some more details from Option? 87.112.83.224 11:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)Siranui
The preferred source for Wikipedia is a secondary source. The reference of a secondary source in the article by an editor does not make it a tertiary source. A tuning magazine he owns is the perfect type of source for this article, if he's referenced it correctly. There are not many "scientists, scholars and researchers" working in the field of drifting, so the best we've got is magazines, books, & DVDs. By your interpretation, none of the other references on this page are valid, and might as well be deleted. A failed google search does not invalidate a reference. Have a read of WP:V and WP:RS. Your dictionary example would come under WP:PN. If you think it's an extraordinary claim (a FF(?) Civic does seem odd) that requires extraordinary proof, that's quite another matter, but there's nothing wrong with the source in and of itself. However if Willirennen put a scan of the Civic victory on photobucket I'd certainly be interested to see it. RB30DE 14:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
A couple of months later, and the Source has not been confirmed by anyone. Also, the term 'won the race' I feel also undermines the validity of the comment, seeing how drifting is not a race. And of course, it is an extraordinary claim that I think needs verification from multiple sources. We are discussing a Subscript textlarge motorsport event here, that it seems only one magazine covered, and nobody actually attended! I personally don't credit tuning magazines as being an acceptable source in isolation (Have you ever read Max Power... their adherance to facts is negligable). I'll give it a week, then delete the relevant section, unless anyone can come up with a good reason not to. siranui 13:00, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I added all but one as I am not that great at that form of editing from the above. Willirennen 14:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah pretty reasonable changes, an improvement. Although - "Drifting techniques" Surely this should be Techniques for inducing drift? - I don't understand this change. I think the original is preferable - shorter, direct. The new version sounds like management speak to me. YMMV. RB30DE 22:13, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Simply because they are not drifting techniques. They are simply a list of methods for starting a drift, so it is very incorrect to label them as drifting techniques. 'Drifting technique' consists of pilling on opposite lock and balancing the controls of the vehicle in a manner that maintains the drift, the angle and keeps you going in the right direction! 87.112.83.224 11:56, 27 January 2007 (UTC)Siranui
Seems pedantic. I don't think it's reasonable to make such a sharp distinction between the beginning and the middle of an action. They are drifting techniques. I like how you removed the absolutes from other paragraphs, but this seems to be in contrast to that. Oh well. RB30DE 14:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I added the link DriftBasic.com for a very important reason. All the links are valid, but organizations such as D1 or Formula D are for the pros. What about the amature drifters out there that make up the core of the drifting scene? Drift Basic is constantly updating info and linking to actual events that are happening nationwide. I think its important to have a link to a site that informs me about events in my area so I have a source to know about events. The first time I read the drifting article, I was like, thats great, but how can I try this for myself and where are events and gatherings where I live? RearWheelPower 05:20, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't a clearinghouse of links. There are hundreds of similar websites for amateur drifting events. Also, no offense, but this being your only edit reeks of pimping your own website. — AKADriver ☎ 13:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I understand that wikipedia isnt a link portal, but dont you see my point? Its one of my friends sites and I think it has the right to be there. If its not Drift Basic, at least let it be another similar site that has news on amature events. People coming to this are most likely US or Canadians. Why would they care about Prodrift Ireland or French drifting? Those are the types of links that should be removed. RearWheelPower 14:49, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't see your point. "I think its important to have a link to a site that informs me about events in my area so I have a source to know about events." - I think that's totally irrelevant to wikipedia. Also WP:EL "...You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent..." I agree that if a link is not in English, it should probably be removed. RB30DE 22:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Let me sum it up like this: If I was new to the concept of drifting, I would google it, and this article would be the second link I see. After reading it, if I liked the concept I would want to try to do it as well (start drifting). Well, looking at the links here, I would find only proffesional events. If links to websites such as driftlive, driftbasic, drift411, etc were added, I would be able to find out about drifting events that I actually could drift in. "Also WP:EL "...You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent..."" - Again, It just a friends site, and I dont represent it. I just added it because I think its the best of the ones I know. Like I said: "If its not Drift Basic, at least let it be another similar site that has news on amature events." RearWheelPower 04:33, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Diagram

 It is requested that a diagram or diagrams be included in this article to improve its quality.
For more information, refer to discussion on this page and/or the listing at Wikipedia:Requested images.

This page could do with a digram showing force and velocity vectors. —Ben FrantzDale 19:24, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not a specialist in drifting, but what about this one from Opposite lock ? Yggdras (talk) 08:22, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] FIA Sanctioning

Surely the reason that it's not FIA sanctioned because it isn't a form of racing? All other ones are. Duke toaster 10:34, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Books

I have removed the section on books since there does not appear to be any criteria for notability, and I could actually find little reliable information about the books. If someone would be able to show notability it would be nice. --Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 15:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Saudi Arabian Drifting

Right now there are a bunch of videos on YouTube showing what I guess is called "arab drifting." It appear to be exclusively FWD family sedans holding ridiculous drift angles on straight roads and weaving through traffic. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it myself. I was wondering if anyone had any sources on this particular type of drifting so it could be added to the article. --Daniel J. Leivick 23:59, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

First, it would be hard pressed to call that drifting simply because they are FWD. FWD can't hold the adequate slip angle for a drift. Second, there are no sources for it, just a bunch of nonsense youtube videos. Third, why make a laundry list of every country that has people who drift? "Holding rediculoud angles on roads and weaving through traffic" sounds more like douchebaggery to me than actual drifting. I can weave in and out of cars too--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 12:36, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
As I noted above, it's stunting, not drifting. Those videos show single feats of recklessness, not an exhibition of driving skill or a racing maneuver. — AKADriver ☎ 17:19, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Well it is obvious that Oni Ookami Alfador hasn't seen the videos as they do hold slip angles in FWD cars that are in some case greater then traditional drifters in RWD vehicles. Of course I would be opposed to a list of drifting style in every country, but this is a particular cultural phenomenon distinct from that of traditional Japanese drifting. Whether it is good or bad, reckless or safe is secondary, Touge started out reckless and really became an international sport and frankly while the guys in these Arab drift videos are clearly nuts I would be hesitant to dismiss their skill. In any case if sources don't exist then it can't be added to the article, but I was curious if anyone knew more about it then I did. --Daniel J. Leivick 18:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I have seen the videos, and I was singularly unmoved by them. Most of them are just the result of roads with grip-conditions due to the environmental situation and some fishtailing on the drivers' part.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 19:18, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origins of Drifting

As another commentator has stated, "drifting" as a driving technique was practiced long before the modern "sport" was created by the Japanese. My uncle taught me to drift back in the 1970s and he had learned from my grandfather who had been a bootleg moonshine runner during the 50s. I don't dispute that drifting as a sport was popularized in Japan but the guys who eventually invented NASCAR who were really the ones who first discovered and used drifting. Don't forget flat-track racing either, one big long drift... All those slippery dirt roads in the American SE were the proving ground for drifting. MRRnVA 17:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)MRRnVA

And the Japanese were probably doing that even before the 50's, considering their entire country is mountainous and lack straight roads. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.53.46.144 (talk) 17:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Japan WikiProject Assessment

A nice long and detailed article. I do wish that the sport's influence on (and appearance in) popular culture/media were described more at length in paragraph form, rather than as simply a list of media in which it appears. This is a major theme/subject in anime and other forms of popular media these days - surely there is something to be said about this influence and popularity as a whole. LordAmeth 13:49, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The other way drifting was born.

In Japan, there is a lot of mountains. In fact about 75% of Japan's land is covered in mountains. So since the street racers were getting in huge trouble for racing in the city streets, they fleed to the mountains, or known as Touge's, to race. Since the mountain roads were very small and had tight corners, they had to find a new way to race. Thus drifting was born! They found different techniques to drift around the tight corners, most likely borrowing ideas from rally. In conclusion, there maybe other forms of drifting, but I think the sport drifting as we know of today (D1GP) was created by the street racers of Japan in the early 1970's.Leokun7 (talk) 00:29, 21 November 2007 (UTC)