Talk:Draco Malfoy/Archive

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Draco in HP fandom

A single fanfiction author being responsible for the ´creation´ of the portrayal of Draco in current fanfiction? I think not!

Yes, Cassandra Claire´s fanfiction was very popular, and it came to this popularity in the time after the first HP movie was released, meaning the following for this character had already begun when fangirls saw Tom Felton as Draco for the first time.

--Not true actually, it came to popularity during the year before the movie was released.

Cassandra Claire´s fanfiction was one of the most popular ones, that´s true. But it was not the first to portray Draco as a ´tragic hero´ or as a sex symbol. It was simply one of many in a wave of Draco-fixation. KlutzyFreak 20:28, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC).

The article reads "due mainly to," not "due chiefly to."
Still, she wasan´t a main reason for the Draco popularity, the actor, Tom Felton was. If we mention her, we should mention every other known author in the Harry Potter fandom who became popular after featuring this character in that light.

I agree. This part of the article is very biased towards Cassandra Claire, someone should edit it.

I see no reason to mention fan fiction at all. Would anyone object to this section going away completely? Friday (talk) 15:11, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

I object. It's a perfectly valid entry on Draco Malfoy. --Dragix

Loyalty

I think that it's premature to make a firm judgement to Malfoy's loyalty. It could just as easily be removed (or say "unknown") as it could read "Death Eater". What do you all think? Friday 01:55, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

I think it's safe to say he's in the Death Eaters because he's a Death Eater. This can, of course, change with the release of Book 7, but for now, I think it's safe to leave it as is. --Deathphoenix 04:06, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
There's a difference between doing what Voldemort says and being a Death Eater. What makes you say he's the latter? Friday 04:12, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Well, it's "likely" (though I admit it's never explicitly stated) that he has the Dark Mark on his arm. Reading through the book, I think it's extremely likely that he's a Death Eater, or at least a Death Eater sympathiser. Either way, that would seem to indicate that his "loyalty" would be as Death Eater. If you feel that we should only put that down if we're 100% sure that he actually is a Death Eater, and would object to seeing it used in all other cases, perhaps changing his loyalty to "Lord Voldemort"? Personally, I'd still prefer to leave it as Death Eater, but I'd like to wait for other opinions in this matter. --Deathphoenix 04:22, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Not really sure. It's definitely true that Harry believes he's a Death Eater and has the Dark Mark. I just thought it was perhaps an oversimplification to say he's definitely a Death Eater. I'm not sure we need to state "Loyalty" in unclear cases, but I don't particularly object to listing it, either. Friday 13:26, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps change the loyalty to Presumed Death Eater? Best of both worlds, imho. --Sanguinus 15:24, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, that's not bad, I think, though I'd reverse it and say "Death Eater (presumed)". Ah, but that's just me. ;-) --Deathphoenix 15:33, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. :) --Sanguinus 17:42, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
I second that.Syazana 03:10, 1 October 2005 (UTC)Syazana

Overextensive Cleanup

Exploding Boy cleaned up WAY too much in this edit of his, and the sections are now too short, too broken up -- even chronologically disjointed. Placing the Black Family Tree near the top is a bad idea also -- it's too big and cumbersome. I'm not reverting right now because the previous version had its problems too, but I'm just giving warning that there may be some significant expansions and reorderings tomorrow here. Aris Katsaris 03:49, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. Someone should make the article more extensive and orderly since Draco is not unimportant. Syazana 03:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)Syazana

He'a a Death Eater, no doubt about that,but who knows whether hewants to be one or not.

It is I...

Mwahahaha... Draco Malfoy 18:35, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Fandom Removal

I asked about removing the fandom section on this talk page a few days ago and haven't gotten any replies yet. I don't see that fan fiction is particularly relevant to an encylopedia entry, so I'm removing that section as unencylcopedic and unverifiable. Friday (talk) 20:27, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Here's the removed bit, in case anyone cares to see it. I made the header not-a-header to prevent confusing formatting.

Draco Malfoy in the Harry Potter fandom

Draco Malfoy has developed a cult following amongst some Harry Potter fans for his cunning, ambition, arrogant streak, and the "Malfoy smirk." He is a popular figure in fan fiction, where he is often portrayed as a kind of tragic hero. He is often written into slash fiction opposite Harry, yet a sizeable number of his followers enjoy placing him with Hermione or Ginny. Unredeemed.net is one of the most prominent sites dedicated to him.

J. K. Rowling has attributed Draco's popularity to Tom Felton and the "bad boy" persona he has on celluloid. Rowling has expressed many times that she thinks fans like the character too much.

I disagree. The Harry Potter fanfiction is an almost unprecedented internet phenomenon, far exceeding any similar fanfiction communities that preceded it, in terms of scale. Draco is a highly popular character in fanfiction, and I therefore feel that this deserves mention. The section on 'Draco in fandom' seems to me to be perfectly encylopaedic - acknowledging that he is a popular figure and giving a number of reasons as to why that might be; that there is a quote from the author on this topic confirms for me that it is notable enough to merit inclusion, especially in the form that it was in - concise and to the point. --Sanguinus 23:20, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
I have to agree with Sanguinus here. It would be one thing if it rambled on for pages, but it doesn't. Hermione1980 23:37, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, perhaps I was a bit too bold. I considered all of this section unsourced, which made me lean more toward removal. I still don't see that talking about how fan fiction "often" portrays him is verifiable or neccessary. However, if anyone wants to put it back, I'm not going to revert war over it or anything. What about the mention of the website (unredeemed)? Is there any verifiable reason it stands out among fan fict sites, or was it just somebody's personal opinion that it's "one of the most prominent"? I'll admit I do have a bit of a personal bias that fan fiction is about as non-notable as your average garage band, and thus I generally don't want to see it included unless there's a very good reason for it. Friday (talk) 15:59, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I'll re-add it and try and improve the section in light of your concerns. Having looked at the unredeemed.net website, I don't think it's especially notable. Sites like malfoymanor seem to be more prominent, but I'm not sure there needs to be any in-line links in the section. --Sanguinus 16:41, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Unless someone can raise any reasonable objections I will reremove this follow section..

In slash fanfiction he is often partnered romantically with Harry Potter. Other popular romantic partners for Draco include Hermione and Ginny.

Not only is this not canon, it is almost certainly explicitly against canon since Draco and Harry are all but stated to be not gay. Furthermore there are fan fiction stories of practically every imaginable fetish for countless different books out there. Do we have to mention each one specifically? Furthermore, Harry Potter slashfiction in general, and Draco slash specifically isn't really notable at all. I've been researching the series heavily and I didn't know about this until I came across it here. Oh yeah and the Hermione and Ginny pairings also shouldn't be up here either..

Jarwulf 18:08, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I have no objections. Sounds like a non-notable area of the Harry Potter world. --Deathphoenix 18:23, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
Regardless of whether or not you like slash, or whether or not it's canon (which most people who write it agree that it's not), I'd argue that it is a notable area of the Harry Potter fandom. Slashers make up a very vocal part of the fandom, and Harry/Draco is probably the largest slash pairing. Fanfiction in general has contributed to popularity of the Draco as a character; it's worth noting that the Draco fangirls and fanboys were active well before the movies came out.nmw 23:05, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm still of the opinion that the entire section should go away. The main purpose of it seems to be to assert that Malfoy has a "cult following" and to talk about fan fiction. Fan fiction is rarely worth mentioning, in my opinion, and it looks like at least some other editors agree. Also, HP is way too popular in the mainstream for there to be a "cult following". Yes, Draco is popular among fans. You could say the same for nearly any character. There's nothing that verifiably suggests this situation is unique to Malfoy. Since I already removed it once and it was reverted, I'm not going to rush and remove it again, but IMO it adds nothing to the article. Friday (talk) 18:34, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
removed stated section, I left up the rest, I don't mind a brief general mention of fanfic as long as it doesn't go against canon. Hopefully everyone's happy.. Jarwulf 05:24, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

"Obtuse" Slytherins

Draco is a bully who is constantly accompanied by two obtuse Slytherins who follow his every order, Vincent Crabbe and Gregory Goyle.

"Obtuse" is a type of angle isn't it? I think obese is the correct word? I just need absolute certainty, I don't wanna be too stupid. APclark 18:33, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Obtuse means "blunt" in the figurative sense also. In other words, they're none too sharp in the intellect department. Friday 18:51, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Abraxas Malfoy

In Chapter Nine of the sixth Potter book, in a brief conversation between Draco and Professor Slughorn, it is mentioned that Draco's grandfather, presumably the father of Lucius, was Abraxas Malfoy, who died of dragon pox at (apparently) some fairly advanced age.

Shouldn't he be included in Draco's family tree? Kestenbaum 04:26, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, he's Lucius's father. - Bouncing Rat.

You know, for Abraxas to have died at an advanced age (for a wizard), he would have to have fathered Lucius (who is, after all, only in his mid-40s) when he was over 100 years old.

Cleanup of Speculation needed

This section is newly created - intended to be canon-based, derived from the books/movies. Consider: our version of the editorials you'd find on Mugglenet or the HP Lexicon. Y'know, something that Rowling herself would be proud of/amused by. This is the section to introduce/rebuke theories. -Dragix

I've added a cleanup tag to the Speculation section. There are phrases like "girly girl", missing punctuation, missing formatting (make each sub-section a real sub-section), etc. JohnRDaily 11:04, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

How about deleting the section altogether? WP:NOT a crystal ball, after all. Hermione1980 14:51, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
I considered that, and I certainly wouldn't object, but I think literary analysis in the guise of character analysis does have a place. It should be presented professionally, though, or not be presented at all. -JohnRDaily 15:05, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Interesting. The section's 1st title was Analysis until I realized it was mostly speculation of present/past events. I was gonna remove Speculation myself but I decided to leave it up for someone to edit because some of the info there was not mentioned in the Books section. --Dragix
Which reminds me, Hermione1980 who did the major rewrite, I love the edits in the HBP section; sounds cleaner and more accurate now. The Books section needs more info. The other characters have a section for each book; Malfoy has 2 sections for all 6 books. Later, I'm going to write the sections for the rest of the books and have someone edit it. Cut me some slack. I dunno about you, but IMHO it's harder to write than to edit.--Dragix
BTW, d'you how they have sub-sections like 2.1, 2.2, 2.3? I'm going to try that. --Dragix

Overall Cleanup

Where did some of this stuff come from? I watch this article, and I don't remember seeing the diffs for this stuff. Oh, yeah, I was on wikibreak for a day and a half. Things move quickly on the wiki. Not to insult the people who have contributed to this article, but ... well ... it needs work. I'm not entirely sure what the point of some of the stuff is. Here's what I see, just off the top of my head:

  1. Leading section. This is an article on Draco Malfoy. The stuff about Tom Felton can go either in the article on Tom Felton or in the "Harry Potter fandom" section, not in the leading section. The leading section is supposed to be a short introduction to the article, not a lot of information in and of itself. It's six paragraphs long, for crying out loud! (Hey man, don't hate, it's intended to explain the character's uncalled-for popularity --Dragix)
  2. Speculation. Lord. I didn't even look at this section whenhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Draco_Malfoy&action=edit&section=12 I was copyediting a moment ago. It's awful. I don't know if any of it is salvageable; it looks like unnecessary fansite material/crystal ballery right now.

Those are the two worst things I see. The whole article generally needs to undergo a pretty serious rewrite, though. I'd do it myself, but what I think is worthy of inclusion may differ from what other people think. Thoughts? Hermione1980 23:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Be bold. I just chopped Tom. -JohnRDaily 00:07, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Nice job guys. Both parts mentioned above (written by me) were the 1st sections I would've chopped too because they're controversial. Speculation's always up for debate and the Felton tidbit may be considered needless slander (It isn't, I've nothing against him). The Felton paragraph explained why the character was so popular. I left it cuz Rowing mentions it, and if it caught the eyes of the author, then it could be noteworthy. --Dragix
I think it's the location that hurt it; under fandom, where Tom is discussed a bit, is the right place.

Oh, and is it just me, or is the picture in the infobox displaying for anyone else? If no one else can see it, we need a new picture (something from the Leaky Cauldron's image gallery would probably work, it's fair use). Hermione1980 00:17, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I can see all pictures. But IMHO we need a new picture anyway. There're better-colored pictures of the Slytherins out there Click Here For Example. --Dragix

Ok, that was bold. Why did you drop the spoiler? -JohnRDaily 01:01, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Ahh, you made the entire article a spoiler. I'm not sure that's the best approach. -JohnRDaily 01:05, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't know either, but I prefer one spoiler warning at the beginning, rather than multiple. If you prefer the other, I don't care. And like I said in my edit summary, if somebody wants to rewrite the speculation section and put it back in, I won't object. I don't feel equal to it. Hermione1980 01:27, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
What's wrong with making the entire article a spoiler? It's true; every single detail from this page came from Rowling's books. If some poor soul who never read ANY book came to this page, they're totally in for it! --Dragix

I tackled tense and overly long and frequently awkward text in the HBP section. This article could be cleaned up forever, seemingly. -JohnRDaily 01:43, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

That's the beauty of Wikipedia, isn't it? That it can be edited over and over again by pretty much anybody who has something to contribute. I confess, the major changes were mostly done by just 1 person (me). But believe you me, my intentions were good. --Dragix

Like all the HP-related articles, this one seems to grow out of control and needs severe pruning every couple of months or so. Let's all remember that we're creating an encyclopaedia article here, not a fan site. Exploding Boy 03:56, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Black Family Tree

This suject has been mentioned on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Harry_Potter#Black_Family_Tree. However the issue is still unresolved. This is one of the articles suffering from the size of the family tree, I think it has become damn near unreadable with all the horizontal scrolling you have to do to read every single line of text. Has anyone got any other suggestions, also unless someone posts an objection on here I think the tree should be removed until a better alternative can be found. Death Eater Dan 10:45, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

It's now replaced with a Note linking to the HPLexicon's Black Family tree. Theirs displays exactly the same info as Wiki's so IMHO it should stay that way until Wiki has something different to offer (i.e. the addition of Abraxas Malfoy, Barty Crouch SR/JR, the Potters, etc) We're citing sources; there shouldn't be a Copyright issue. --Dragix

The Black family tree does not belong in each Black family member's article. It has been removed from this article. Also, please avoid placing external links inline; far better to use them as references instead. Exploding Boy 03:55, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Literary Analysis

Dragix, I like the analysis you added to the first paragraph (about pointed features, for example), but I don't like the location. I think it's too much detail for an introduction. Can you create a new section for analysis of how Ms. Rowling describes and uses Draco? I'm going to pull the text for now. -JohnRDaily 13:17, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

He is described as a pale-faced boy with white-blond hair, pointed features, and cold grey eyes. Harry describes him as a spoiled, arrogant, and selfish person.
Thanks, I'm beginning to see your style: concise, to the point, right? "Pointed Features" was added when I overchopped the above section; then intro lacked info. Harry's opinion of Malfoy is stated and re-stated in the rest of the Intro, Books and Background section so I thought it was alright to eliminate. Physical appearances aren't mentioned in Hermione or Ron's intro so I figured why's it there? It's already in the side panel. Then I realized that nothing in the article mentioned his "pointed features", which has a tiny bit of villainous significance (Actually, the importance of the white-blond's opposition to Harry's jet black isn't mentioned either) I realize I'm overthinking things.
I read Wiki's article about introductions. What's the "fundamental information" in context of Draco Malfoy? --Dragix
BTW, I'm surprised the title Think my name's funny, do you? still lives. When twas 1st written, I thought, "That title is never going to live to see tomorrow," It's a direct quote from the character, but wouldn't you say it's unprofessional? --Dragix
Also wanted to remove Leather-Pants Draco. It's outdated, no longer one of the most popular fanfictions. By the time, 4 years ago, when I started reading fanfiction I'd never even heard of Cassandra Claire, instead it was all about The Paradigm of Uncertainty by Lori. Neither fanfictions were based on canon. I decided to leave "Leather-Pants Draco" alone because (1) Claire was 1 of the most popular among the 1st wave of Draco fanfiction and (2) a reference to Claire is on the front page of Google w/ keyword "Draco Malfoy". Someone. Anyone. Please remove "Leather-Pants Draco" because I find I'm incapable of doing so. --Dragix

This section has been removed as original research. Wikipedia articles are not the place for literary analysis. Only facts gathered from reputable sources are acceptable. Exploding Boy 03:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

PLAGIARISM

After the major 'clean-up' made by Dragix, I have to confess, the section became much more organized than ever before. However, it's _pure plagiarism_ (see the rules for wikipedia if you do not know the rules) Entire sections and stubs were stolen from www.hp-lexicon.org It's COPYRIGHTED CONTENT, and should there fore be removed. -->KlutzyFreak

I just compared this with our article. Where's the plagiarism? I see paraphrasing, yes, but we link to the Lexicon at the bottom and paraphrasing isn't plagiarism. There are no "entire sections and stubs...stolen" from the Lexicon.
Also, you can sign your posts on talk pages by typing four tildes, like this: ~~~~ This transforms automagically into your username and a timestamp, which makes following conversations a lot easier. Thanks! Hermione1980 23:10, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Hermione1980 was correct; there's no plagarism and no paraphrasing... Don't know where that came from. I couldn't find plagarism in the earlier edits either. I added a few parts and sections, moved them around, and categorized them. But I didn't clean or subtract much; my intent was solely to add to the article. I wrote my edits at 3AM, mostly by memory. Trust me, it can be done. I've been re-reading the books over and over since 2001, reading DM quotes, reading DM editorials, searching for canon fanfiction, and viewing every interview with Malfoy even slightly mentioned... Accusing me of plagiarism sounds malicious. Dragix 18:01, 11 March 2006 (UTC)Dragix

Draco as "archenemy?"

Really? "Rival" perhaps, but "archenemy" implies that Draco is the principle source of conflict for the protagonist... that's simply not the case, even in Book 6. Voldemort is Harry's archenemy, Draco is a minor character until HBP.

Is there any reason to let "archenemy" stand? --Nukular winter 18:28, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes. "Archenemy" is a quote from the beginning of the 2nd book (Ch1 maybe?). I can practically recite it from memory: He had never felt so lonely. What wouldn't Harry give now for a message from Hogwarts? He'd almost be glad of a sight of his archenemy Draco Malfoy, just to be sure it hadn't all been a dream... Dragix 19:57, 24 March 2006 (UTC)Dragix
It's there, but this is a case where Harry's perception does not mesh with reality (Harry has often been an unreliable narrator; frankly the argument that Draco, and not Voldemort, is Harry's archnemesis is untenable). The article refers to Draco as "the" antagonist and as Harry's archnemesis; Draco's role in the stories is neither. --Nukular winter 20:21, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
True. It is 3rd-person limited POV afterall. Dragix 06:30, 28 March 2006 (UTC)Dragix