Wikipedia talk:Double redirects

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[edit] MediaWiki deficient?

If Wikipedia terminates a redirect as a precaution to infinite loops, they should come up with a better plan than that.

My plan is to improve the Wikiware to automatically detect a self-redirect to stop an infinite loop but allow a sequence to other redirects until it reaches the terminus. --SuperDude 05:54, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Is there anyone working on removing the restrictions on double-redirects? Where might I find more information? Ewlyahoocom 22:14, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Er, yes, that's what I thought. Loop detection is a solved problem. All you do is remember every page you've redirected through and see if you hit one again. As a back-end check you would have a maximum hop count of some reasonable value (like 20)? Easy-peazy. Why should we have to compromise the logical structure of Wikipedia (or any wiki) for the sake of a few lines of code and a few CPU cycles? Duckbill 09:40, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

I propose that this be moved to Wikipedia:Double redirects. To my recollection, I never even saw the term "multiple redirect" before I stumbled onto this page a bit earlier. (Well, maybe I saw it once.) Even the page itself consistently uses the term "double redirect", except for the initial defining sentence. Eric119 04:59, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • I will implement this move. Eric119 16:50, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] prevention is better than cure

Whenever we move a page, we are reminded to check for double re-directs and fix them, if any. However, whenever we merge two articles, and convert one of them into a re-direct, we do not get reminded to check for double re-directs. We should probably be reminded whenever a re-direct is made so that this problem can be remedied by the initiator of the re-direct himself. --Gurubrahma 10:36, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] ...in order to prevent infinite loops.

I believe the phrase "...in order to prevent infinite loops" should be removed from this description. The limitation is simply a limitation (and there are better ways to avoid infinite loops than this kind of deficiency -- I even believe following double-, triple-, or whatever-number-of-redirects could be done within a single existing SQL statement without adding any additional looping in the software). Ewlyahoocom 22:27, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I prefer to keep the explanation about infinite loops. It's only a few words. I prefer to see an explanation of why a limitation is there, rather than just be told that there's this limitation. There may be better ways to do it; maybe the development team will change it when they have time. You could, if you want, start up a discussion perhaps at the technical section of the village pump or on Meta, or perhaps put in a bugzilla feature request, though I'm guessing the development team is already aware of the problem. If it's done with a single SQL statement there would be implicit or explicit looping within the SQL statement; perhaps the SQL interpreter automatically checks for and avoids infinite loops. I don't know the details and I'm guessing there's some reason the development team doesn't find it easy to change this, or they would have done it already. --Coppertwig 13:27, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fix double redirects automatically

Would it be possible for the database to fix double redirects by itself, without relying on us to find them and edit them? --Smack (talk) 18:16, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Ask it on Bugzilla. Melsaran (formerly Salaskаn) 13:55, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Added section "Checking for double redirects"

I just added instructions on how to check for double redirects. These instructions may seem obvious and unnecessary; but let's just say that some of us are the type of people that if we write a program that handles linked lists we need to draw little diagrams with boxes and arrows, and if we write another similar program a few weeks later we need to draw the diagrams all over again. In other words, it may be obvious to some people but confusing for others. I hope these instructions will remain here so I can re-read them next time I move a page. --Coppertwig 13:19, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contested move request

The following request to move a page has been added to Wikipedia:Requested moves as an uncontroversial move, but this has been contested by one or more people. Any discussion on the issue should continue here. If a full request is not lodged within five days of this request being contested, the request will be removed from WP:RM. —Stemonitis 06:47, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

  • It is unclear to me that pages in the Wikipedia namespace must be bound by the same rules as article titles. If there is thus little point in making the move, then the disruption it might cause is reason enough not to move the page. --Stemonitis 06:47, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
  • I see no reason to keep it in plural, either. We also have Wikipedia:Redirect, etc. Melsaran (formerly Salaskаn) 13:27, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Opposed this isn't an article, WP:NC is for articles. Even the WP:NC page name is pluralized. 132.205.44.5 23:19, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Yes, because there are multiple naming conventions on it. Melsaran (formerly Salaskаn) 04:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Byrial method?

The article mentions that the "Byrial method" builds on the redirect (Topbanana) code. What is the Byrial method, and why is it not explained or linked? Cww 03:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] redirects to singulars with possibilities

I'm being told that under this policy, pattern-avoiding permutations must not redirect to pattern-avoiding permutation, which is tagged as a redirect with possibilities. If the latter becomes an article, then pattern-avoiding permutations would be left redirecting to something other than pattern-avoiding permutation, and those clicking on "what links here" at the latter page would never find out. That is absurd. At least one bot that fixes double redirects will NOT "fix" them in cases where there's a "redirect with possibilities" tag, but there's another that does (user:computer) and it's owner refuses to override it in such cases as this. Michael Hardy 20:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I've already provided Michael Hardy an alternative that accomplishes what he wants without having to have broken redirects. It is trivial to add an HTML comment (or simply text as Wikipedia will ignore anything after the redirect) after the redirect that mentions the others. Example:
#redirect [[Stanley-Wilf conjecture]]
<!-- If you change this to an article, please be sure to modify [[Patern-avoiding permutation]] & [[Patern-avoiding permutations]] to redirect to here -->
It is easy to solve these concerns without having to have double redirects that confuse our readers. -- JLaTondre 21:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Michael Hardy chose to place a text with links after the redirect code.[1][2] The text is not displayed and the redirect works so our readers should not be confused, but Special:Whatlinkshere/Stanley-Wilf conjecture may confuse editors (at least it confused me). It falsely looks like there are double redirects having to be fixed. PrimeHunter 01:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
If this is really necessary (and it may be) he should be adding something like this {{R from alternate name|Pattern-avoiding permutation}}, which would at least "look" right (even if it doesn't do anything). I would prefer if the Wiki software could be modified to at least handle just 1 extra level of redirection, which would settle this and a lot of other issues. Ewlyahoocom 02:07, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] bots are often idiots; they should be supervised by thinking humans

The redirect page titled "ML Inequality" redirects to "estimation lemma". Note that it has a capital initial "I". If "ML inequality" (with a lower-case initial "i" should ever become an article rather than a redirect that points (like "ML Inequality") to "estimation lemma" then "ML Inequality" (with a capital "I") should be edited to redirect to "ML inequality" (with a lower-case "i"). Therefore, this redirect page reads as follows:

#REDIRECT[[estimation lemma]]

If [[ML inequality]] ever becomes an article rather than a redirect, then this page should be changed to redirect to that.

It works fine as a redirect page. But this bot called Computer changed it to read as follows:

#REDIRECT[[estimation lemma]]

If [[estimation lemma]] ever becomes an article rather than a redirect, then this page should be changed to redirect to that.

Now think about that. The owner of the bot doesn't think that's a problem. And he cites THIS style page, on double redirects, to justify his bot's behavior. That's the most unreasonable view on design of Wikipedia that I've seen in a long time. If THIS page requires that behavior of that bot, I propose to alter it so that it still forbids double redirects but doesn't require that idiotic edit. Michael Hardy 23:28, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is this done automatically?

Special:DoubleRedirects says It is not necessary to fix these by hand. Bots will go through the entire list periodically and fix all of the double redirects. Is this true? If so, why do the move pages give stern warnings that fixing double redirects is your responsibility?--Yannick (talk) 15:52, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Bots will fix double redirects on that list. However, that list is generated periodically which means that a double redirect can exist for sometime before it gets fixed. The move page directions are to avoid having readers being confused by double redirects in the period between the move and a bot being able to fix them. The bots are to fix ones that are missed; they shouldn't be used as a shortcut as that would be a disservice to our readers. -- JLaTondre 15:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Some of these page moves can produce hundreds of double redirects. That's a lot of tedious work to do by hand, something of a disservice to our editors to put this responsibility on them. How often do those bots run?--Yannick (talk) 02:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
It's not an issue of how often the bots run, but rather how often the double redirects page is generated. That's generated by the Wikipedia software. I think it's done daily, but I'm not positive. I gather that it is database intensive. I doubt there are many moves that "produce hundreds". The ones that are overwhelming can obviously be left to the bots. However, the nominal case of a handful should just be taken care of by the editor. -- JLaTondre 13:20, 28 November 2007 (UTC)