Talk:Doctor of Education
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[edit] Ed.D. vs. Ph.D.
There is much confusion here concerning the Ed.D. designation, so much so that this article is highly biased.
As college professor in the United States, the Ed.D. is primarily awarded as an honorary degree. Those who receive the title honorarily are, as a matter of custom, not entitled to the title of "doctor".
Beyond honorary appointments, some colleges do award the Ed.D. as a professional alternative to the Ph.D. in education (similar to the DBA vs. Ph.D. in business). The difference is that the professional degree is more applied science, where as the Ph.D. is more theoretical. Typically, the top research universities only hire Ph.D.s as professors, since those universities are primarily focused on research. Teaching schools hire a mix with the Ph.D. graduates as preferred. The reason is that theoretical research typically nets more NSF and other grant money as well as increases the likelihood of publication in an A-list journal. For similar reasons, consulting firms tend to prefer the professional degree graduates.
Because the Ph.D. is more theoretical, it is often the more difficult of the two programs; however, this depends on the specific school and program. In the doctoral heirarchy, however, the Ph.D. is held in higher regard.
It is also worth noting that the Ed.D. degree is the primary "doctorate" granted by many online diploma mills and online universities.
- I agree with what you've written save the bit about the Ed.D. being primarily awarded as an honorary degree in the U.S. To the contrary, I think that's relatively rare. JJL 03:44, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
- Really? The College of William and Mary has an Ed.D. in their School of Education. Is W&M a diploma mill? Sometimes it is not really clear (see here) why two degrees exist. I think this is a bit more complex and peculiar to an institute than you might think. For instance, their PhD and EdD programs in Counselar Education contain the exact same courses. Quite frankly I think in many cases it's a matter of politics.--The Founders Intent 18:27, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
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- He said that if it's a diploma mill, then it usually grants an Ed.D. He didn't say that if it grants the Ed.D., then it's usually a diploma mill. I believe the point is that weaker colleges offer the weaker degree; stronger colleges may offer either (or both), and as you note the reasons are often somewhat quirky. JJL 21:11, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Title of Doctor
So, if you have an Ed. D, would you be bestowed the title of "Dr. ...."?
Yes, it is a full doctorate that tends to be issued by the school of education within univeristies. No difference, at all, from a PHD
The footnote you reference is confusing. It states that Ed.Ds are only considered "Doctorally Prepared" in the field of education. Duh! Is that not true of PhDs also? One is only "Doctorally Prepared" in their field of study. Also, the cited source for this information is meaningless. The AACSB means nothing outside Schools of Business; thus the AACSB has no standing in the debate surrounding Ed.D credentials.
[edit] Ed.D. vs. Ph.D.
I do feel that an Ed.D. requires less research than a Ph.D., although I am aware that some Ed.D. students do perform an equivalent amount of research nonetheless. Looking here [2], for example, the degrees are at different levels ("Each refers to a different level of achievement"), and the Ed.D. is a professional doctorate for practitioners. Another very specific example, from a dept. offering both the Ed.D. and Ph.D. in the same subject, is here [3]: "Both a proposal and a dissertation are required by all doctoral students. PhD students must defend their dissertation during an oral examination." Apparently, Ed.D. students need not defend their dissertation. From NYU again, this program [4] requires 6 more points (credits) of dissertation research and 6 more points of research courses for the Ph.D. than the Ed.D. This is exactly what I am talking about! The Ed.D. often requires a more project-sized investigation. Look here [5] for another example: An Ed.D. requires "the preparation and defense of a dissertation" whereas the Ph.D. requires "preparation and defense of a research dissertation" (emphasis added). These are on the same web page, contrasting the degrees. Look also here [6] and here [7] (same program, Ed.D. vs. Ph.D.); for the Ed.D., "The dissertation may involve research and evaluation and/or development of theory-based curriculum and staff development programs." (i.e., evaluation and development of programs are viable options). Here's a 3-year Ed.D. from the same school [8], showing the clear professional focus. I think it's clear that the Ed.D. requires, asa rule, less research, and allows a more project-based appraoch. I'm sure there are exceptions. JJL 15:44, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
The comment that Ed.D. candidates are not required to defend their dissertations is incorrect (see Ed.D. Inaccuracies, below).
[edit] Ed.D. Inaccuracies
Ed.D. Inaccuracies
The statement that Ed.D. candidates are not required to defend their dissertations is incorrect. I have an Ed.D. and work in an environment with many Ph.D.s and Ed.D.s. I also sit on a comprehensive exam committee of an Ed.D. program. I don't think I have ever met an Ed.D. (including myself) that was not required to orally defend his or her dissertation. In a study of Ph.D. and Ed.D. dissertations (Content Analysis of the Ph.D. Versus Ed.D. Dissertation,Winter 1994 issue of Journal of Experimental Education (vol. 62, no. 2), 158-68.) significant differences were not found between dissertations published by the two and the authors concluded that there is little or no difference in academic rigor.
With respect to the footnote indicating that Ed.D.s are only considered doctorally prepared in education, I would consider that inaccurate as Ed.D. programs in psychology are recognized as meeting the licensing requirements for a practicing psychologist in the U.S. (see Pyschology Education in the United States - http://www.ccla.pt/infocenter/estrutura/Psychology.pdf). Thus, Ed.D.s in Psychology are clearly recognized as being doctorally trained in the field of counseling psychology and not education. Other Ed.D. programs focus on competencies in organizational behavior, institution administration, organizational leadership, and educational technology as well as many other areas of focus.
[edit] Comment about Ed.D. inaccuracies
As someone who will hopefully be pursuing a Ph.D. program (Fall 2007 – Higher Education Leadership), I would like to acknowledge a statement that was made by a previous person.
The 'Ed.D. Inaccuracies' author wrote, "Thus, Ed.D.s in Psychology are clearly recognized as being doctorally trained in the field of counseling psychology and not education." Technically - this is a true statement. However, I don’t care for it because most people pursuing that type of program generally end up working in an educational institution upon completion of the degree. That is why it is an Ed.D. in Psychology. An Ed.D. program in educational psychology focuses on how psychology works within the context of education, or its application within an educational institution.
For the past two years, I have spent MANY hours researching Ed.D. and Ph.D. degree programs; primarily looking at the difference between their approaches to, and their application of research. In my experience, I found that most Ed.D. websites in counseling psychology stress the importance of obtaining a job within the field of education (or educational related setting) when they finish their program.
- [Counseling Psychology] and [Psychology] are are not the same at Virginia Commonwealth University. Although psychology has become a catchall for various subsets, it is generally associated with clinical psychology. Regarding Ed.D., see my comments above.--The Founders Intent 19:08, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
In fact, most university websites are careful to point out that those interested in obtaining a terminal degree in psychology (outside of an educational setting) should pursue either a Ph.D. or Psy.D. I think it is inaccurate to lead readers in believing that one who goes for an Ed.D. in Psychology (with the goal of being a counselor) will be pursuing jobs in the private sector when finished with their degree. Yes, they’ll be certified. No, that’s not generally the degree that one would pursue when leaning towards the private sector.
what type of literacy skills do doctors need??????????????????? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.113.132.57 (talk) 23:03, 3 January 2007 (UTC).
Mad ones. --192.154.91.225 (talk) 19:34, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] EdD vs PhD
Do EdD and PhD graduates have the same status when they are applying for the professor post in the university? Will PhD graduates always have a higher priority? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 221.126.253.120 (talk) 11:21, 18 February 2007 (UTC).
[edit] NPOV
From the second paragraph onwards the article reads like a piece of propoganda. Don't compare PhD and EdD so much - it seems like this article is more of a defense of the legitimacy of an EdD in the face of claims that PhDs are more glorious, or whatever. If you want to compare the two, find some sources and put this argument in a section of its own. The freddinator 02:32, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] EdD V PhD
The PhD is one of the oldest forms of doctoral designation in the UK and Ireland. However, there are many other forms of designation for those who have studied at doctoral level including D.D., D.Psych etc. The key difference between an Ed.D. and a PhD is that the Ed.D. student works within a community of learning while the PhD student works alone - there are clearly benefits to both of these experiences and neither is better than the other.
[edit] Citations missing
This article needs to be cited throughout. Please add citations as possible, where possible; otherwise, feel free to remove uncited POV. – Freechild (¡!¡!¡!¡) 13:15, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
