Talk:Dixie

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Contents 1 Dixie 2 Origins of the Name "Dixie" 3 Dixie As A Region 4 Opinions On Improving Dixie Song Portion 5 NEW MAP

[edit] Dixie

The idea that the word Dixie was invented is slightly bizarre considering the fact that the Lord Mayor of London in the year 1585 was named Sir Wolstan Dixie and the Dixie family has continued to the present day. Jack Hill 03.02.05

Although an uncommon usage dixie can also be used for pot or kettle. As in "he stirred the stew in the dixie." Might be useful to disambiguate.

While in Charleston, SC, I was told by a hobby historian on Middleton Plantation that the name Dixie came from rice bales. A whole bale of rice was called a "dixie" (I don't remember if he said, why), and since rice was the gold of the South, it came to be identified with the South. Petra from Germany, but with heart lost to Charleston, 31.01.06

Who considers Dixie Racist?? -Anthony Smith 3.11.07

Many American congressmen, students, and musicologists, to name a few. — Brian (talk) 00:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origins of the Name "Dixie"

I'd like to see more thorough discussion of the origins of the name in the article. I find the statement "The Mason-Dixon theory is the most popularly known, but few lexicographers give it much weight," to sound throwaway and unsubstantiated. IT may be the case, but I would like to see WHICH lexicographers discount it, and their reasons for discounting it. On the base of this article, the first two theories seem equally suspect and unsubstantiated (though after reading more about the "Mr. Dixy of Manhattan" theory and its links to the song, it seems more realistic). Indeed, the first theory about New Orleans and the bank notes sounds especially specious, considering NO was part of Lousiana, which had a relatively new connection to the South in 1859, as well as an entirely different Gallic culture from the rest of the South. It seems to me that a nickname from such a remote, new, and culturally different part of the South would not be readily adopted by the rest of the region. Other sites I have looked this up on confirm the unlikeliness of the bank note theory: http://www.wisegeek.com/how-did-the-southern-us-get-to-be-called-dixie. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Mmyers1976 (talk • contribs).

Sorry, Mmyers, I removed the quote, as it was very long and violates our copyright policy. But you're right: This article could do with a great bit of expansion from a careful editor willing to sift through the competing views and cite reliable sources throughout. This could be a very good article with a little tender loving care. One problem I see with your argument above is that you seem to be assuming that the name "Dixie" was adopted by the whole region because it was a banknote or named for a New York farmer or named for the Mason-Dixon Line (sorry to put words in your mouth). The truth is that the name did not come into wide use until after the song of the same name became popular. So, the real question becomes, "Where did the writer(s) of the song 'Dixie' get that name for the South?" This gives the competing theories a bit more wind in their sails, since a single songwriter can take inspiration from anywere. — Brian (talk) 22:23, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

i agree with brian. it may be worth while to layout a timeline of possible origins, all of which would converge into the song being taken up by the confederacy. i would also like to mention that i believe that its chorus is a slave tune and not of emmetts imagination. i also find it hard to believe that a slave owner with sizable land in manhatten "who was known far and wide" so that even emmett in ohio would have heard of him could have existed if you consider that there is not a single documentation of a "mr dixy" who could fit that description. Some thing 16:31, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking of removing the statement "The Mason-Dixon theory is the most popularly known, but few lexicographers give it much weight," because I can't find anything resembling a source for it. Some courses even contradict it. See: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Dixie and http://tafkac.org/language/etymology/dixie.html Emtilt 20:07, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dixie As A Region

while i appreciate the effort to distinguish dixie as a region. i feel this section has some problems that are difficult to separate from POV. for instance dixie as a region being a place that observes "confederate traditions". the only aspects of the failed confederate government that live on today are the memorials to confederate soldiers, wich is a "post confederate" tradition. in some cases you may find those who identify with there confederate heritage as a nationality. but in general, i dont see what distinguishes a confederate "tradition" as apposed to what had already been established as southern traditions or culture. also portion that describes the regional location is a little abstract and would be best suited with a map from a reputable source. the only way i can imagine such a map being made would be from a survey asking poeople in america if they lived in dixie. Some thing 16:31, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

>>Thanks for this input, and points are well noted. This is something I asked originally on the Southern United States page, and am extremely interested in. That is, opinions, and help on "fleshing out" this article.

>>Anyway, you are right. Much of this IS, for the moment, POV. For gosh sakes, let's ALL improve it!

>> BUT, I maintain, that the "Confederate tradition" is not just to be found in neglected monuments, but in official holidays, the use of the mascot "Rebel" and "Dixie" as a fight song for some high schools in certain parts of the South. This counts for a hell of a lot.

>>You have a good point though, that I hope was mentioned, in that "Dixie" has become more percieved, in a modern day sense, as vernacular, as opposed to concrete historical. For instance, West Texas, most of Florida, and northern Virginia, properly speaking ARE part of Dixie! BUT...how many in those locations would see it that way today?

>>The definition of Dixie is more emotional in meaning, than is "The South." Anyway, I wrote this section with the hope it can become something good! TexasReb 22:22, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

>>Just as an additional point related to the one made by the OP, a survey asking people if they lived in Dixie, and map based on the same, would be a great addition. While Dr. John Shelton Reed (mentioned extensively on the Southern U.S. discussion page) has done quite a few studies attempting to locate "The South" by where people said they lived there, to my knowledge nothing has ever been doing similar with Dixie. Would be a great idea, though. TexasReb 21:11, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Texasreb, for the citation of the study about where Dixie is. I have a couple of comments, though. First, would you mind adding a "References" section at the end of the article and then adding a full-form reference to the study there? Second, you write that the study concludes that "the deliniating lines measuring over 6% remained fairly constant in covering most of the Old Confederate States, minus all but the far eastern sections of Texas". Are you sure this is eastern Texas? One would think western Texas would be a more likely cut-off point. Thanks! — Brian (talk) 22:36, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

>>Thanks Brian, and you are ABSOLUTELY right as concerns the way it was originally worded, vis a vis regions of Texas, being screwed up! I DID do a bit of rewording, but need to do some more, and will, especially in citing and adding sources and references related to your well taken second point! TexasReb 23:51, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

one last thing, this section needs help being wikified. (links, citations... etc) Some thing 16:57, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

>>I would greatly appreciate a little assistance in adding a reference page and citation. I am a bit of a novice at this particular aspect of Wikipedia, and wouldn't want to screw it up! Would one of you mind helping with this? The information concerning the source on the business listings comparrison study is as follows: "The Shrinking South and the Dissolution of Dixie" John Shelton Reed (with J. Kohl and C. Hanchette), Social Forces 69 (September 1990): 221-233. Thanks much in advance! Afterwards, I am sure I can figure it out for latter updates, additions, etc. TexasReb 17:48, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

i think Ethno-telephony could be of valuable use as well.Some thing 23:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

>>Thanks much for the assistance in citing and referencing! (I think I have it down now! LOL) Also, for the great additions and such! I can see this article becoming something of note if we keep at it! TexasReb 00:04, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opinions On Improving Dixie Song Portion

>>Since we are adding/improving the needed "Dixie As A Region" part of the article, I wanted to ask opinions on also doing something more with the "song" portion...? I once wrote a three part article on the history of the song, and thought of adding some parts of it, appropriate and worded right of course, to that particular section. Here is a link to the series: http://usads.ms11.net/dixie.html Again, just wanted to get some opinions first! Thanks! TexasReb 17:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

IMO, ideally the section containing the song info would be purely a historical narrative to support the history of the word "dixie" as a reference to a place. IMO, the significant aspect of the song for the purposes of this article is how it took a term that was only used by a minority (likely 'slave song' singers and carnival folk) to describe a small region (likely around new orleans), and through its adoption by the confederacy, brought the word to signify all of the south by all southerners. but we would need citations for every bit of this and any alternative theoretical historical narratives would need inclusion. in the end we cant lose site, that this article is about "dixie" as a name for a place, and spend as few words as possible on the song for just the song's sake. so i would propose having all the dixie song info placed into a narrative called "History of Dixie" rather than "I Wish I Was in Dixie". i found your article to be informative. do you have citations for all that info? Some thing 23:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Whatever happens, we should be sure not ot expand the section on the song too much, if at all. There is already a featured article on the song on Wikipedia, and it's pretty good, if I do say so myself. :) Instead, this article should either contain a summary with the "main article" template, or the song's role in popularizing the name "Dixie" should be included in the broader historical description of the term Dixie. — Brian (talk) 09:26, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

>> Thanks y'all, for the great input and points. I had no idea there was already a full-length article on the song itself in Wikipedia and, for that reason, among others noted, would definitely agree with both of you that any additions in this one -- if indeed any at all -- related to the song would need to be very limited and directly related to Dixie as a place. Backtracking to the Wikipedia article Brian, I feel a little foolish now, mentioning my own work! LOL Yours (I am assuming you wrote it!  :-) was much more extensive and researched as an historical piece than mine was, and I very much enjoyed reading it (although, yes, Some Thing, I do have citations and sources for my own work, but was not included in the article itself). On the other hand, mine was more "feature" and "tribute" oriented -- and naturally containing much more POV -- for a Southern webzine publication. Anyway, again, I agree with what y'all say on the topic! TexasReb 17:04, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NEW MAP

GREAT new map of Dixie listings! I wish the contributor would come in and talk to us. For one reason, the updated map probably warrants some explanation, deliniation, etc. in the article itself. 66.25.204.117 (talk) 15:04, 23 March 2008 (UTC)TexasReb