Talk:Dimethyltryptamine

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[edit] Pineal gland?

My understanding is that it is at least a bit controversial, and there are some scientists who deny that endogenous DMT is secreted by the Pineal gland. Should we provide a source? RadicalHarmony 1 July 2005 23:17 (UTC)


You are sort of right RadicalHarmony: To date I am not aware of any study of any kind having evidenced DMT in the pineal gland of any vertebrate. Certainly did Rick Strassman put it forward as an hypothesis in his popular book on DMT. But he himself acknowledged that "no one has looked for DMT in the pineal." (DMT: The Spirit Molecule. Rochester: Park Street Press, 2001, p. 69). In fact it seems no one has looked for endoDMT in any specific brain region of any brain of any animal.

The confusion may arise because of one relatively old study where 5-MeO-DMT was evidenced in vitro in human pineals when a methyl donor was added:

Guchhait, R.B. (1976). "Biogenesis of 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine in human pineal gland". Journal of Neurochemistry, 26: 187-190. Furthermore the method of detection used in this study is considered of dubious accuracy today.

There is thus sufficient lack of evidence of DMT being present in human brain (whatever region) to remove propositions about DMT in pineal. Doctorcito 20 Aug, 2005.

As there is a "speculations" section, i'm going to reinsert the pineal gland stuff in there. Not stating it as fact, as before, but rather just mentioning it as something people have proposed about dmt, which should have a place here regardless of its factual accuracy. good to see you around here, doc, and it was nice to finally meet you. Heah (talk) 17:57, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
I added some info about Strassman's theory about the pineal glad issue and the results of his research. I added a reference at the bottom of the page as well. I think it is a balanced edit but if others wish to remove or change I'm open to disscusion on the issue. NeoFreak 04:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reading materials

Read DMT: The Spirit Molecule by Dr. Rick Strassman, M.D. Excellent book on the matter —Preceding unsigned comment added by Khranus (talk • contribs) 03:08, October 7, 2003 (UTC)

I totally disagree. Pharmacotheon, by Jonathon Ott, is a much better resource. Strassman seems to throw science out the window with his new-age preaching. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ix (talk • contribs) 23:17, June 28, 2004 (UTC)

Strassman's book (mentioned above) is merely a summation of his research results for a lay audience. A bibliography of his peer-reviewed journal articles can be found here (relevant entries numbered 18, 19, 20, 22, & 24). — Clarknova 10:59, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Strassman's book is indeed weird. It has some interesting stories to tell, but he does not attempt to formulate an overall explanatory framework. The last time I was reminded of the DMT experience, was during my reading of 'The Art of Dreaming' by Castaneda. Real or fabricated, the book seemed to refer to realms of non-organic beings in a very matter-of-fact way.

Jonathan Ott's other book (can't recall the name now) has some useful recipes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.164.98.3 (talk • contribs) 08:32, August 27, 2004 (UTC)

Ayahuasca Analogues, now out of print. Some of its content can be found here. — Clarknova 10:59, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

I felt Dr. Strassman's book was a boring read but he did a legit empirical study of the effects of DMT on the human conscious at the University of New Mexico with a diverse body of human subjects. What freaked him out was the overwhelming and somewhat scary reports a majority of his participants gave of a reptilian race of creatures in rooms with advanced technology, which I think ties into ancient zulu and aboriginie so called mythology of a reptilian race that created blacks to do slave labor. Zacharia Sitchin, a expert in Ancient Sumarian texts and a Hebrew teacher has a series of books that also ties in here. Not to mention conspiracy theorist David Icke's extensive writings on the illuminati reptilian shape shifters that are our worlds ruling blue blood royalty -supposedly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.194.21.217 (talk • contribs) 02:05, March 6, 2005 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_BD_WBg9aA


[edit] Lack of neutrality

I state that this article lacks neutrality. Just as mentioned earlier, the "link" section contains many DMT-positive sites, witch is very disturbing considering this is in fact an illegal drug! And the article itself should show the side-effects and the bad reactions your body suffers when taking this drug! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.202.123.165 (talk • contribs) 20:12, July 26, 2006 (UTC)

If you know of any such side-effects or bad bodily reactions, please contribute to the article. __meco 01:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree, this is lacking in neutrality, there must be some negative effects\addiction for it to be a "Class A" drug Alan2here (I take that back, maybe you are right RadicalHarmony) Alan2here (talk) 14:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC) 15:21, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


not really, you might be suprised
Alan2here, why must there be? The government(s) have provided very little reasoning for the classification of drugs in their respective categories, especially in the USA, where DMT is schedule 1. I am not aware of nor does an active search provide any reasoning whatsoever given for the prohibition of this drug or its placement in schedule 1. RadicalHarmony 02:58, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Sinned

yeah once again... please show a reference to any harm or even potential harm from dimethyltryptamine. no scientific literature has ever reported any dangerous or harmful side effects from DMT in humans, monkeys, rats, or mice.

May I add, that the use of DMT is not "illegal" across the whole world. I apologize for not being able to provide a reference and will go and search for one, but its use is allowed in "religious ceremonies" in parts of that vast geographic area known as "The Amazon"˜.

Again, I shall seek out a further reference but there is no reserach which has found DMT to be addictive. See Rick Strassman's 7 year study for example. Indeed, its "negative physical effects - vomiting, sickness, etc - experinced by most users and its very short half life - are condusive against it being addictive. # Rick Strassman, DMT: The Spirit Molecule: A Doctor's Revolutionary Research into the Biology of Near-Death and Mystical Experiences, 320 pages, Park Street Press, 2001, ISBN 0-89281-927-8

I do however agree that perhaps the physiological dangers - lack of conciseness, vomiting, etc - need to be emphasized togeather with the "emotional" wellbeing of a "user". In its indigenous use the "user" is always accompanied by an experienced "shaman" (for lack of a better word) or experinced practioner partlly for these reasons. Worth emphasizing perhaps? --Wolfit 17:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


Illegal in the US? Well currently in the US, the church known as Uniao do Vegetal is allowed to legally use ayahuasca tea containing DMT for religious purposes. - FV 18:24, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Negative results? Its not known to be addictive, but can be habit forming, just like anything people enjoy doing. There are no known bad effects other than some people experiencing nightmarish visions. DMT has been used in religious contexts for hundreds of years without any noticed bad effects on the cultures that use it. It seems safer than alcohol in many respects and is clearly less toxic on the body in amounts used religiously. Keep in mind that, unlike alcohol, this chemical occurs naturally in humans, so it can't be all that bad for you. - FV 18:24, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


On a more general note of neutrality -- this article immediately jumps to DMT's "psychedelic" aspects and use as an entheogen, rather than first introducing it neutrally as a common neurotransmitter and natural component of normal brain chemistry. Take the very thorough article on Cocaine as a good exemplar of how a chemical is first presented scientifically, and then, secondarily, its role in human culture. Surely from the entheogenic perspective, DMT's status as a naturally occurring neurotransmitter is its most powerful statement of legitimacy. To take steps toward neutrality, I'm relocating details about hallucinogenic properties to the section with that title, and emphasizing plain chemistry up front before diving into the psychedelic details. Danielsteinbock 09:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Legal issues

Does any one know of any cases applicable to the idea that someone could be arbitrarly convicted for DMT possession based on naturally occuring DMT.

http://www.the-cloak.com/Cloaked/+cfg=32/http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dimethyltryptamine&action=edit&section=4

[edit] Addiction?

I didn't notice anything in the article saying whether DMT is addictive or not. Is there any info on this? It does say it is similar to serotonin, and I have read that serotonin plays a part in the biology of various addictions, so I would like some info on that. Since it is speculated that endogenous DMT plays a part in natural dreaming, I would specifically be interested in any info on the possibility that dreaming itself can be addictive, causing people to sleep a lot or alter their sleeping habits in order to induce more dreams.

I strongly recommend seeking info about DMT through Erowid ( http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/ ). The abstracts and scientific journal articles indexed there will be useful. As far as I know, it still hasn't been proved that DMT can cause addiction. Besides, its rate of metabolism is reported to be surprisingly fast, and the pharmacological tolerance doesn't develop. I also want to point that DMT is a "Class A" drug due to its intense hallucinogenic properties and lack of deeper investigation into the effects of its exogenous use (especially long-term) in humans.
The chemical similarity of DMT to serotonin doesn't mean that their pharmacological effects are similar. The role of serotonin in addictions involves the sudden change in functioning of serotonin receptors under the influence of drugs (Read this: http://www.scripps.edu/newsandviews/e_20030929/parsons.html ). As for possibility that dreaming could be addictive - I must disagree and point that dreaming may act as a kind of psychological and neurological regeneration. It is a natural phenomenon, not a pathology.
Here you can find out that elevated serotonin (and its precursors) level can actually improve the vividness of dreams, and even decrease sleep duration - it is rather a sleep/regeneration aid than a potential "dreaming addiction" danger. Dreaming can be insightful, exciting, but I've never heard that it's addictive.
http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/pinealstory.htm
http://www.erowid.org/smarts/tryptophan/
Concluding, if such a potent hallucinogen (entheogen?) as DMT is naturally produced in our body AND there is a fast pathway to metabolize it, AND it shows no risk for addiction, there HAS to be some purpose of such biosynthesis. Still, more research is needed.

Pharmacus 83.20.192.139 20:13, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] cold water extraction of M hostilis with out MAOI

I am seeking reliable information on this subject anyone? I heard a story about a person who has tried this twice. Once at 28grams once at 60 grams of M. Hostilis root bark with no noticeable effects. This subject has been bouncing around the net for a decade or more. Personally I would like to get to the bottom of this once and for all. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 166.217.119.210 (talk) 19:37, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

A researcher performed GC/MS on mimosa hostilis crystalline extract which was believed to be n,n-DMT last year. He discovered in addition to the DMT, an unnamed (or unidentified) beta-carboline alkaloid which is assumed to be a potent MAOI. Search bluelight.ru for more information on that. As far as a cold water extraction, that sounds unlikely. Most mimosa hostilis rootbark is orally active though, due to that recently discovered beta-carboline, but you need to boil it in a slightly acidic broth to extract the DMT and beta-carboline effectively if you're only going to use water and not any organic solvents. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that not every variety of mimosa hostilis contains the beta-carboline, so if you happen to have bark that isn't orally active, you might need to find another supplier. Sinned 02:16, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Primitive Tribes"

The term "primitive tribes" is very value laden from a "western" perspective. Primitive from who's perspective, etc?

Would the term "native indigenous users" be less value laden and neutral? Or could anyone suggest a far better alternative?--Wolfit 17:35, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pharmacology?

There is no information on the pharmacology of DMT in this entire article! That is important information, and I'd personally like to know. If there is anyone here who can write about it, please do, as the pharmacology of any drug is one of the most important things about it. Jolb 22:52, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

DMT is a (partial) agonist at the 5-HT2A receptor, that is responsible for the hallucinogenic activity. DMT is degraded by monoamine oxidase very fast, that is responsible for the short action. Cacycle 23:59, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DMT and 5-MeO-DMT Rumors on Wikipedia!

Sophisticated modern tests have proven over and over again that both DMT and 5-MeO-DMT appear in such small amounts in the beans of Anadenanthera peregrina and Anadenanthera colubrina used to make Yopo and Vilca snuff that they have little or no effect in the snuff. Please don't add anymore false claims of DMT or 5-MeO-DMT being the main active compound. I've seen dozens of tests that show that bufotenine is by far the main active compound and that the beans contain very little DMT and 5-MeO-DMT. Even modern tests performed by the DEA in the US report this to be the case. I haven't seen a single study done with modern equipment that proves otherwise. The Wikipedia article on DMT had this false claim in it for quite some time. I fixed it. If there is any other place with this false claim, please fix it! --Ron Delipski 01:45, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reports on bad or confusing writing/formulation

I can't figure out whether this sentence (from the bottom of the "speculations" chapter of the article) is incomplete or whether words are mixed or misplaced. Perhaps "that" should be "so"?

"It's possible Strassman thought that because DMT falls in the large class of chemicals called Tryptamines, which includes Serotonin, LSD, Melatonin (a hormone the Pineal Gland does produce), and Psilocybin." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.38.88.168 (talk) 23:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Slow, very fast--NPOV?

I realize this may be nitpicky, but is it NPOV to say something happens "very fast" or is "slow" or the like without a source? Please be patient with me; I'm still learning. Wakedream (talk) 07:59, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Daniel Pinchbeck

I think this article should make some note of Daniel Pinchbeck. He has a chapter called "I smoked DMT" in his book Breaking Open the Head. He theorizes not only the possibility of naturally occurring DMT found in our bodies regulating dreams, but also that DMT opens doors to multi-dimensional realms... I think that's interesting enough to include in this article. - 144.118.49.140 (talk) 14:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

McKenna said it years before and wasn't a Leary-esque prick like Pinchbeck. But thank you for the addition. I didn't see anything by McKenna there so it will work just as well. :) JRDarby (talk) 18:15, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Check Erowid for more info

This is not an advertisement, but rather a suggestion to use [erowid.org] for verifying information, because they have experience with researching and compiling info on psychoactives/psychedelics and drugs.

The part where citation is needed is called for, because there has been no true evidence to support the idea that you have "true hallucinations" or even euphoria from using the drug; one of Erowid's effects listed for DMT is a "Short duration" and judging by that I came to the conclusion that many users have unpleasant experiences with the drug.

If there is no further evidence, then please delete said sentence, or edit it to it's proper understanding. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.36.234.94 (talk) 03:27, 30 May 2008 (UTC)


I don't know what you mean by this. Why would short duration imply a negative experience? By short duration it doesn't mean voluntarily short (i.e. -- individuals only use the drug for a short time because they don't like it), it means the effects don't last very long. Reidlophile (talk) 20:42, 1 June 2008 (UTC)