Talk:Deucalion

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[edit] Etymology

I placed in an interesting etymological idea from "the letters of Shir". I could not find support for this view (that the greeks interchanged r and l) from wikipedias phontic page. Perhaps someonelse van find out more. Possibly From Noah to Deucalion would be a more interesting subject header? BestWolf2191 05:04, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

There is also a connection between the greek word for shovel "dixella", I don't have the alphabet down so I can't add it in. Perhaps someone else can.Wolf2191 01:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

The Greeks interchanged l and r in what sense? Among Greek dialects, or from PIE? •Jim62sch• 13:42, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I removed this from the article as it is a mess: "However, it is also possible that "Deucalion" is related somehow to lightning or to oaks, from "Dyēus" -- Liddell and Scott note a Boeotian variant "Δεύς" of the usual Greek Ζεύς -- and κᾶλον "stuff to be burned," hence "wood" (and thus "ships"), which they derive from καίω "burn, set on fire.""

If you are refering to PIE, you need to note it as *Dyēus. Second, the Aeolian form Δεύς doesn't really matter as Ζεύς is derived from *dyēus or *deiwos anyway (there is disagreement on the actual root, no matter what the Wikipedia article says), the same root from which Deus is derived. Also mentioning lightning (I suppose via Zeus' reputation as "Thunder-God) seems a bit odd, and the point becomes unclear.

Finally, κᾶλον simply means dry, seasoned wood (no reference to ships), although it is derived from καίω. Also, whence "oak"?

Bottom line, it's none to clear where this particular tangential etymology is going nowhere fast. •Jim62sch• 14:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

As to "dixella", where did that come from? The closest I can find (or that I'm aware of) is διχα (in two, asunder), and which would be transliterated as dicha, hence if διχελλα did exist it would be transliterated dichella. Also, there is absolutely no proof that the Greeks had any problem with the Hebrew R. •Jim62sch• 14:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

You're likely right. The rabbi in question lived in the 18th century but he did know his greek.I need to look for the exact spelling. I can see a connection between asunder and knife. There maybe such a usage in ancient greek?? Best.Wolf2191 05:09, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Incidentally the (ancient) hebrew R was half R half a guttural Ch, I can see how it might end up an L.Wolf2191 21:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Lost me on "asunder and knife".

If you read the Septuagint, you'll find that there was no problem transliterating the Reish to a rho (which, btw, was also partially gutteral). Additionally, there is no real proof that Greek borrowed much of anything from Semitic languages. What was really happening in the case of the Rabbi was that he was using the Tower of Babel story to a assume a tongue from which all languages derived. •Jim62sch• 22:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

"there was no problem" agreed but mistakes to happen on occasion. We aren't discussing necessarily whethr greek and semitic languages are related but rather if a greek man had heard the story from a Semite and heard Noah described as a Dekeron might he then have transmitted a story about a dekaron which a slight speech defect would make deucalon. (i.e. a connection is being hypotesized between two similar sounding words, how and when such a switch would've happened is left to the realm of the imagination. I any event as a valid source I think it can stay but I am interested in your thoughts on this subject Possibly you can look in on thhe metatron etymology as well. ThanksWolf2191 22:31, 22 June 2007 (UTC)