Talk:Derek Bentley

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Biography Portal
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]

I've added a section on joint enterprise. I've also removed two lines on manslaughter since they were applicable to Craig rather than Bentley. Anecdota

Contents

[edit] NPOV check

Nominated it for this becuase I think it is from one persons point of view. Any edits are mostly welcome. Please leave a comment below. Thanks, 15:08, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Although the article is not of the highest quality, I don't think it seems terribly biased, from a quick look. Could you please point to specific examples? EldKatt (Talk) 17:35, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
I suggest that the check be allowed to run for another month. The article does focus too much on Lord Goddard- it should also make a reference to the career of the Home Secretary who refused clemency and another to the question of competence to stand trial. Anecdota


I have read a alleged quote from Lord Goddard, although I cannot now locate it, saying that Bentley was convicted because he helped prepare the ammunition for the gun.

However, even assuming that this was the case it is quite clear that, even if Bentley was guilty, he should not have been executed because of his mental state.

I've added the missing references. I've also removed the NPOV, which was three months old. It would have been easier to discuss specific objections by a named contributor. Anecdota

[edit] Standard of this Article

I think this article is very biased and inaccurate. No mention is made of the weapon - a spike on a knuckleduster - that Bentley was carrying. As to the recent Court of Appeal hearing, it should be clear that the Court did NOT clear Bentley. It set aside the conviction on the basis that the trial had been unfair. That is NOT unprecendented - it happens ALL THE TIME - nor could it be described as 'damning' any more than any other successful appeal. If Bentley was still alive, he'd have been retried.

[edit] Policing Wikipedia in Britain

On the night that I removed this NPOV flag four uniformed police officers were dispatched to my home in Herefordshire. I spoke to them at about one in the morning. They claimed that they had received a report of a break-in from a passer-by.

The divisional commander of police in Herefordshire is Kevin Bentley who was appointed to the post in March 2004. He shares his interest in antiques with a superior, the Deputy Chief Constable of West Mercia Police, Ian Arundale, promoted in October 2005 to replace Alan Bridge.

Arundale told Jane's Police Review Magazine in February 2004 "What we would like in the future is a Star Trek-style phaser that, perfectly safely, temporarily switches someone's brain off so that officers move in", when West Mercia were introducing the taser, though that may not have been his only motive.

He is also responsible for West Mercia's Legal Services and their response to the reorganisation of the police in England and Wales. West Mercia are attempting to remain a separate entity.

He remains Chairman of the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) Firearms Working Group. The NPOV flag was placed on September 22nd 2005 by an anonymous user. The most notorious police killing of an unarmed victim before that of Jean Charles de Menezes on July 22nd 2005 was that of Harry Stanley, on September 22nd 1999, which may have been resolved in October 2005 by the Crown Prosecution Service's refusal to press charges against the officers involved. Stanley was shot dead after an anonymous report from a public house identified him as an Irish terrorist.

I have previously written about the Labour government's attempt to police the internet using the Dunblane massacre. Blair has been willing to appoint Ian Blair Commissioner of Metropolitan Police despite the police killing of Blair Peach during the 1979 election, a death which followed the INLA murder of Margaret Thatcher's political strategist Airey Neave in the Commons car park two days after the election was forced. The gradual introduction of cameras into British courts makes this echo extremely dubious. The police have also become involved in lobbying the British public during the 2005 election and in writing to MPs before a vote. However, no-one living in a democracy expects an intimidation campaign to be directed against them for revising a free internet encyclopedia.

I do not wish to involve Wikipedia in legal action, nor do I wish to be accused of supporting current British policing methods by deliberate omissions. The murder of PC Miles became a sensitive political issue and I wanted the article to make a short mention of this. However, I assume that the purpose of a democratic discussion of current affairs is to prevent abuses. I have written to helpdesk-l@wikimedia.org to ask for help in resolving any legal issue, given that reverts would leave my edits visible. Anecdota

Arundale 'Star Trek' article, as reported by The Guardian

Why don't you take this paranoid self-aggrandisement to myspace? NicM 00:09, 1 December 2007 (UTC).

[edit] To Encourage the Others

This section like the work of a conspiracy theorist. It states that Craig was "firing from a distance of just under 40 feet". According to D.C. Fairfax in Lord Bingham's judgment of 1998, Craig was only 6 feet away. Whilst there are some discrepancies, 40 feet is highly unlikely and definitely unprovable. On top of this, if the gun shot came from anyone other than Craig, why was his only defence a lack of intent, and not instead the fact that someone else shot Miles?

On what basis do you claim, "40 feet is highly unlikely"? Yallop reproduced the police's own architecture plan of the rooftop; the distance between the back of the lifthead, where Craig was, and the stairhead, where Craig says Fairfax was when he fired at him, is 39-45 feet. More to the point, the foresics evidence is entirely consistent with Fairfax being hit by a ricochet from 40 feet away, and not a direct shot at 6 feet, as Fairfax claimed. As to Craig's defence, the fact is that he accepted that he had shot Miles, because that's what everybody told him he had done. It was Yallop, years later, who came up with the theory that Miles had been shot by someone else in the confusion, as it more logically explained the forensic evidence. Nick Cooper 00:33, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
It would be pretty nice if the article made it clear that this was what Yallop said rather than either fact or our claims. NicM 00:13, 1 December 2007 (UTC).

[edit] This, to some extent, seems like a pseudo-biography

Read WP:PSEUDO particularly, and to a lesser extent WP:COATRACK and WP:BLP1E and consider the following.

Little of the article is actually about Derek Bentley's life. All that we know about him is that he had a hard upbringing, had a level of mental retardation, and went into a warehouse with his friend with a gun telling his friend (ambiguously) to "let him have it" when the police officer was there, and was later executed for this. This is not an adequate biography of a person's life, and if that was all that he had done, he would fail WP:BIO.

Most of the article focuses on the coverage following these events, the posthumous pardon, and the reform of the death penalty laws in the United Kingdom. Derek Bentley is not notable as a person; his case and the coverage surrounding it following his death are notable.

Therefore I suggest the article be moved to "Derek Bentley case" or something similar with "Derek Bentley" as a redirect (in the style of other articles like Disappearance of Madeleine McCann, Murder of Damilola Taylor, Murder of Arlene Fraser), but I won't do that yet until someone else agrees.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 05:56, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I somewhat agree. The article does have too little about the man, but aside from the case the man is not notable. A bit more about him before the case would be nice, but POV and lack of cites are much more serious problems at the moment. I'm definitely opposed to making two articles out of this. NicM 00:17, 1 December 2007 (UTC).
I wasn't suggesting making two articles out of this. I was suggesting this page be moved to Derek Bentley case which would leave Derek Bentley as a redirect to that.-h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 07:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

This article is terrible. A case with so much detail and influence but only one cite? The tone is all over the place but never neutral. Seriously needs a bit of research and a good edit. NicM 00:06, 1 December 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Original

Craig and Bentley had originally intended to steal from a shop, but dropped this plan when they saw a light on in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.41.51.240 (talk) 14:45, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Craig

After he was released, Craig changed his name and worked as a plumber. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.174.243 (talk) 16:28, 14 February 2008 (UTC) When Craig jumped off the roof, he said, "Give my love to Stella" or the like. This implied that he was trying to commit suicide, not to escape. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.11.37.209 (talk) 17:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC) It seems that Craig had a knife, as well as a gun. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.11.37.209 (talk) 17:14, 15 February 2008 (UTC)