Talk:Demon (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This Buffyverse-related article is part of WikiProject Buffyverse, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Buffy, Angel & the rest of the Buffyverse. You can help! Visit the project page, episode checklist or discuss an article at the project talk-page. |  Buffy Portal |
Contents |
[edit] no souls?
what canon sources are there that say all demons are by default soulless? What about Lorne? Or Clem? --86.146.162.63 02:40, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Souls, Mog'tagar, Ethics, and Metaphysics
I've removed the entire metaphysics section, as well as the discussion of the Mog'tagar and their souls, from the Buffyverse page, because it is made up of original research, poor research, and unreferenced statements.
1) The entire Mog'tagar discussion: The original poster drew a conclusion from a single line of dialogue. I also don't agree that the conclusion is justified. The canonical reference given to say that there is a "clear implication that many or most demons have souls appropriate to their species" is as follows:
But while the Mok'tagar can assume many forms and guises, including human, they can always be recognized by others of their kind due to the lack of a soul.
First of all, this does not make any statement, clear or otherwise, about any other demons. It refers exclusively to the Mok'tagar. Second, if Mog'tagar demons don't have souls, and they are looking for one of their own and can tell when looking at a human who is supposed to have a soul, that they don't have one.... not exactly a challenge to our understanding of souls. A far more logical conclusion is that the statement was badly worded.
The first comment on this talk page asks if there are any cononical references that demons do not have souls. There isn't anything explicit-- the only discussion of souls with demons is in reference to the Mok'tagar, Angel, and Spike.
2) Our understanding of demon metaphysics is hampered by the human/terrestrial nativist bias of the Council of Watchers, a major source of information on the subject.
This comes across as a fan with an axe to grind against the Council of Watchers. Actually, the Watchers WERE biased, and this was shown in both shows, but what does that have to do with demons, and what research can you cite to show that this hampers our understanding? Did someone in a canonical source say this?
Furthermore, I am aware of no sources that state that that CoW has a "intermittent equation of soul with conscience". Bear in mind that there was much conflict between Angel and the Watcher's council because they did not trust him even with a soul-- it is in fact the main conflict that demonstrates their close-mindedness.
3) The discussion of the Watchers, even if it wasn't unsuitable for Wiki, really doesn't belong on the demons page.
I did, however, agree that the discussion about the relative good/evil of demons was appropriate, if under-referenced. That's why I put in the Ethics section. I had to stop myself, however, from commenting on the redemption of Spike-- a demon (in fact a Big Bad) who actually strives for redemption and the restoral of his soul. While I could cite the hell out of it, the conclusions would have been original research. CatherS 04:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Possible deletion of this article
The Vampire (Buffyverse) article is currently up for deletion and I fear this one could be next. See the Vampire deletion page to see what I mean. It could be deleted because it's written completely in-universe. I unfortunately don't have time to fix the Demon article, so I thought I'd point this out, so that someone could fix it before this article gets deleted. • Supāsaru 13:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
- The nomination looks like someone who doesn't think Buffy is significant enough to merit an article, and is being a §§§§§§§ about it. Their justifications for the article (with the exception of a lack of references) are false. If this article comes up, we'll fight it. This article is somewhat better referenced than that one, but still... CatherS 03:42, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Demon (Buffyverse).jpg
Image:Demon (Buffyverse).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 20:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
