Talk:Decade nostalgia

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[edit] Poorly written!

This article is dreadful! For instance:

>In a more cynical and perhaps truthful light, the 1950s is the last decade in which racism was not actively
>fought against and the rights of women and children were not as developed as they were in latter times.

In the US, the civil rights movement was already under way in the 50's (see Rosa Parks). And doesn't abolition count as a fight against racism? As for the women's rights comment- that is true of nearly any time in history!

Another example - "Similarly, the experience of a typical Chinese person during the 1960s would have had little in common with the commonly-accepted Western image of 'The Sixties'." Are there large numbers of Chinese with nostalgia for the US/European 60s? If not I don't think this is relevant.

This should either be deleted or totaly rewritten. Kurtosis 00:47, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I had serious reservations about whether an article with this subject/brief belonged, and actually AFDed it. (Please read "Is this original research?", below. There's no point in my rewriting the discussion).
Since the article survived the AfD, I wanted to make sure that the potential problems were addressed.
As the person responsible for that second "bad example" (but not the first), I'm not sure your argument against it is much clearer. My point was this; the "decade nostalgia" image of the 1960s is flower-power, pot-smoking, hippies in VW vans, yadda yadda. Disregarding the fact that this is an idealised, simplified, *highly* selective, and media-promoted version of 1960s reality in Western countries anyway, we also have to remember that it has little relevance to large numbers of people who lived in countries like China during the 1960s.
How does Mao's cultural revolution- or even the positive aspects of Chinese life at the time- enter into the "decade nostalgia" (not my words) view of the 1960s?
It doesn't.
That's why I included that sentence; the article needs a reality check to avoid becoming part of the selective image-promotion which it is trying to describe. Perhaps the Chinese don't go for the western 1960s image, but the point is still worth making that it doesn't apply to everyone. More importantly, with some decades- e.g. the 1950s- the American suburban, consumerist, rock n' roll image holds sway, even in countries like Britain where the "real" 1950s were nothing like that.
Anyway, if you can rewrite that duff sentence more clearly, please give it a go. My gut feeling is that, whilst I can see what the article's creator was trying to describe, there are fundamental problems with an article on the whole "decade nostalgia" concept in practice.
Fourohfour 00:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
This is an article, not an editorial. I think it's clearly implied by the term "nostalgia" that it's a glorified, cleaned up view of the past.
You missed the point. Whose nostalgia?
The article isn't (as far as I can tell, see my reservations above) about "nostalgia".
It's about the "decade nostalgia" phenomenon, a mass-accepted (and arguably forced) version of nostalgia.
People in Britain *don't* generally get nostalgic for a 1950s Americana they never experienced. The word "nostalgia" is arguably misleading.
The whole basis of the article is badly-defined when it's looked at closely. You changed it to say that it reflects US culture, but was that what it was originally meant to be about?
Fourohfour 02:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Is there really any other kind of nostalgia? Memories of Mao, Stalin, the Holocaust, etc are not properly called nostalgia.
Then the title of the article was poorly chosen in relation to what it's trying to describe. At the risk of saying "I knew this would happen".... I knew this would happen.
BTW, you made the point yourself when you said that the average Chinese person was unlikely to recognise the western 1960s as having much to do with the Chinese 1960s/1970s.
Perhaps we can point out in NPOV that nostalgia is, by definition, focused on positive memories. Whether people are too nostalgic is not the job of this entry to debate. Kurtosis 00:34, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
No, no, NO. That was *not* my point. My point was that the media-accepted and stereotyped versions of "nostalgia" do not necessarily reflect real nostalgia (as in what real people get nostalgic about, not reality), particularly in different cultures. Even disregarding whether what the article is describing is pure nostalgia, or simply a set of cliches about a particular decade, that problem still exists.
Fourohfour 02:03, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
404,
I do not understand what you think this article should be about.
Exactly. I don't think the article has a clear idea what it's meant to be about.
Could you explain what you take the term decade nostalgia" to mean?
On its own, I'd have to think about that. I'm not convinced that the name is a good one.
Going by the grounds that the original article covered (*), I'd say the article *seems* to be trying to describe the set of values that are culturally associated with a particular decade, regardless of the reality of that decade.
(*) The problem is that I don't think that the title and the (apparent) original intent of the article match up exactly.
Are you saying it should describe all fond memories that all people have about the past?
No, of course not.
That is far too unwieldy, it would be nearly impossible to describe.
Obviously. I never proposed anything like that.
Also I think we should stick to the tenets of Wikipedia, this is not the place to be making value-laden arguments about how the media is manipulating our memories.
You can believe this or not, but my edits were an attempt to make sure Wikipedia described the phenomenon *and no more*, without *actively* reinforcing existing biases. The former is desirable, the latter is not.
I wasn't entirely happy with my edits on this, but they were there for the reason given.
For instance- "People in Britain *don't* generally get nostalgic for a 1950s Americana they never experienced. The word "nostalgia" is arguably misleading." If that is the case then I don't see why you would mention the british view of 50's american here,
Let me explain. There is a 1950s "image" in Britain that is strongly associated with the Americana/Rock-n'-Roll 1950s stereotype. At the same time, it's hard to call this nostalgia, because few in Britain would ever have experienced even the reality behind this idealised vision.
it is simply not relevant to the topic. If you feel the British media foists it upon the british people than that is a topic to be debated elsewhere. I can say that in France that is not the case, nostalgia, both "real" and "media-driven" is largely for things related to French life. I think the same is true in most countries.
I limited the topic to make it tractable.
Actually, I agree with this. I'd *much* rather have an article which knows where it stands, says "this isn't a world view", etc.
I don't know if I can repeat what I've said already in a new way that makes it any clearer. However.... I believe that the way the article was previously made it impossible to write an article that both (a) Avoided getting into editorial territory, and (b) Did *not* reinforce media bias tendencies as fact.
Let me put that another way; I agree absolutely that Wikipedia should describe, and no more. Thus, it should not report the "U.S. media"-centric "commonly accepted" values as the same thing that everyone associates with a particular decade.
Again, I dislike the name "decade nostalgia", because it could be taken several ways. However, trying to make it more descriptive risks turning it into a dissertation (i.e. editorial, see (a) v.s (b) above). This is what I consider one of the major flaws.
In the US there is a clear tendency to develop a certain image of a previous decade, which is usually seen in pop culture at least 20+ years later. Examples include "Grease" for the 50's and "that 70's show" for the 70's. Kurtosis 19:35, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
To be honest, I'd already made the decision to leave this article in your "U.S.-centric" state, because as I said above, I'm far happier with that anyway. Also, I'm rather fed up with it. Fourohfour 11:15, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is this original research?

This article sounds like just a collection of common thoughts. Does anyone have sources for this article? Wikipedia has a strict policy against original research. If no sources are given soon, then we should take this up at Articles for Deletion. --A D Monroe III 19:14, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

I've added this to AfD despite my misgivings. It's not a worthless article, but I do have problems with it. Fourohfour 13:35, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
Okay, so it's being retained. Unfortunately, the AfD is gone, so I'll restate my reasons. My problems were that this article (although it discussed a valid phenomenon) would have been POV and by default reflected American stereotypes of the decade. Whilst "decade nostalgia" is by definition a stereotype/nostalgic view rather than reality, the fact remains that (outside the 1950s, whose stereotype is suburban Americana and Rock n' Roll in many countries outside the US; or at least in the UK), people's nostalgia for the decades varies.
In particular, the "Seventies" in Britain (if anything) conjurs up images more strongly associated with the "glam rock" style leanings of the first half of the decade than the punk/disco of the second half. (Punk seems to be a different nostalgic pheonomenon in its own right; I guess you can't have two "Seventies"; evidence for the fact that culturally a single "cultural" decade is an artificial construct). Yet the article implies that the first half of the 1970s was really the 1960s continued, and that "Seventies" is disco. In America, perhaps.
Anyway, I didn't want the whole thing to descend into the usual "In Canada.... In the Netherlands.... In Tuvalu..." type essay of disparate perspectives. On the other hand, I don't consider an exclusively-US view acceptable either (the article may reflect biases propogated by the dominance of US culture, but it isn't its place to reinforce them).
I think it will be hard work to get something that balances lots of views whilst remaining NPOV and readable itself. But it's here to stay, so we may as well keep it in order.
Fourohfour 11:18, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

"This article sounds like just a collection of common thoughts." Isn't that what Wikipedia is all about?

[edit] AFD debate link

This article has been kept following this AFD debate. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:31, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification

I'd like to clarify what this article is about, mostly for my own purposes, but also for anyone else who needs clarification.

Decade "Nostalgia" (for lack of a better word) is when an individual looks upon a decade or decades gone by with a sense of longing or "nostalgia", usually with a view to the things that could be said to characterize that decade. (e.g 80's = Big Hair, 70's= Hippies) Due to the spread of American culture particularly in the western world, and globalization this "nostalgia" is largely Americanised, so it is unlikely that the UK, Australia or any other western nation's Decade "Nostalgia" is very different from America's. Because of the innate nature of our brains to filter out bad memories after a lengthy period of time, past decades are often portrayed as a happier or "better" time than now by those who experienced them to those who have not, creating a sort of false Decade Nostalgia in which an individual feels nostalgic about a decade that they did not experience first hand.

Decade Nostalgia is largely centered from around 1950 to today because that is the extent of living memory. It is largely westernised in general because that period in time wasn't neccessarily peaceful for those lving in the 2nd and 3rd world (e.g Cultural Revolution or Chilean Right-wing coup.)

Do you think this is a fear assessment? If not could you please point out what you think is wrong. Please note I'm Australian, but I don't have a strong bias against America so I'm really not trying to push ay kind of agenda here. Kripcat 12:29, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What's wrong?

It seems to be an article written by you about your feelings and viewpoints. It is not an encyclopedia article, a compilation of third-party viewpoints. You have not cited any evident that this is a generally acknowledged area of thought. Timmy12 04:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I would Like to point out

The article says that nostalgia is always unrealitstic, But This is igoring the fact that there are people who know about the flaws, but appreciate the good parts. It's a case of "wouldn't want to live there, But lets enjoy the good parts". For example, Someone might know about the problems of a decade, But will enjoy it's Music, TV, and movies. It should also be noted that nostalgia occures it people who lived in the decade, who would know whats it's really like. Some people take a half ironic/half appreciative view where they make fun of the questionable parts, But Love other parts (An example would be some 80's gamers). This article would be better if it just said "Nostalgia is when someone has desire for the good parts of a decade", as thats what it is. Maybe this article should just be deleted.DesignForDreamingFan 04:30, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Style consistency

I attempted some kind of consistency with all of the decade names in this article, but I didn't get very far. Its really of muddle of 50's, 1980s, Sixties, etc. Where possible I used the wikipedia standard of 1990s, instead of 90's.

What I attempted was differentiating the nostalgia subject decade from the viewing decade, i.e., Fifties nostalgia in the 1990s. "Fifties" is that which someone is nostalgic about, while 1990s is when they were nostalgic about it. It seems like this style was already in use somewhat, but it can be problematic trying to apply it universally. Especially with this article, we need some type of style to discuss the glut of decades. Also, I like the heading of the subject nostalgia being numeric, i.e., <===1950s nostalgia===> instead of <===Fifties nostalgia===>. This wouldn't be the style of the content of the sections though.

Either way, using "Sixties" and "1960s" interchangeably is what I'd like to avoid. Xndr 15:07, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 60's considered the best by "many"?

reference please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.75.194.50 (talk) 18:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] terrible - what is this chuff doing on wikipedia?

This article is awful - I plan to edit it without mercy. --Fredrick day 21:10, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unsupported content

I'll remove the content unsupported by references in the next few days, unless citations are included. Addhoc 16:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

For editors who missed the above comment, I confirm that I am going to remove the unsourced content that has been tagged. Addhoc 11:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Belle Bottoms '70s style?

Who agrees that belle bottoms are 70s style?

[edit] 90% original research

It's quite obvious that 90% of this article is original research. I propose deleting almost everything in the article, leaving only a definition of the subject, as well as a general description of the decade nostalgy of each decade. Doing that would also solve the problem of the article being too US-centric. --Aqwis 20:38, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

  • I agree that a lot of the content is uncited opinion and should probably be deleted, but the question is how much? Spylab 11:50, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
    • 90%, of course. See section heading above (too lazy to go through this myself right now).--Pharos 06:21, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 90s Nostalgia

Do the references support the statement that the period recognized in pop culture as "the 90s" ended with the September 11 attacks? Although this was a major event for some people, it seems unlikely that it marked the end of an era worldwide. Did it cause widespread changes in movies, music, etc? It's effects were mostly concentrated in America and it's major effects (government policies, transit security, etc) are not things usually associated with decade nostalgia. 216.36.186.2 18:48, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] So much original research, so poorly written

I hope someone has the time to tackle this article's many, many problems. Moncrief (talk) 18:39, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Expand articles for nostalgia

People wouldn't know what they were nostalgic about in the first place if there weren't many events that defined the decade. We need to expand the sections of nostalgia for each decade to summarize some of the events that occured and provide a greater historical background. A lot of these sections were brief, and poorly written. I tried to expand the 90s section, since a lot went on that decade. Obviously we don't want to take up too much space but maybe someone else should help expand some of the other decades. Thanks.Rumble74