Talk:Death marches (Holocaust)

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Pseudo scholar Daniel Goldhagen stated that those death marches prove the anti-semitism of the SS-men and SS-women, because, he says there was no organization to enforce orders anymore. So he says, the SS-men acted out of their free will. I think a more probable answer to the question why these death marches took places is

1. a residual sense of obedience. Obedience had been drilled during years into the SS-men and hence did not disappear overnight. Himmler had ordered to take the Jews with them as a kidnapper and use the Jews as a warrant to negotiate with the Allied forces.
2. fear of having to fight the enemy if they had no task anymore (i.e. if they had no Jews anymore)

Unfortunately I have no references for what I write so it cannot go into the article. Please do not insert Daniel Goldhagen's opinions in the article. Andries 21:42, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Freedom fighter or terrorist, dissident or extremist, patriot or nationalist extremist, holocaust revisionist or holocaust denier, concentration camp evacuation or death march, .... They all mean the same, but the first has a more or less objective meaning and the second has a strong pejorative leaning to it. It's strange how selective Wikipedia tends to be in its objectivity.

The "death marches" were just evacuations of the camps. The poor conditions were normal, regarding the fact that war had been going on for several years and the Germans were about to lose it. The shooting of prisoners who couldn't follow, is something I'm sure the Americans or Russians would also have done. Calling the evacutions "death marches" is yet another attempt as demonised the Germans by using semantics. --IlluSionS667 16:20, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There is no limit to self-deception and selective interpretation. Although Goldhagen's work is not rigorously defensible historiography, the above writer has even less justification for his asinine comments. "Evacuations" normally take place out of fear of the individuals falling into the hands of hostile forces. There was no such danger for the occupants of the concentration or extermination camps, whether Jews or gentiles. The purpose of these horrific death "marches" was twofold: (1) attempting to prevent the victims from being discovered by advancing Russian troops (there was still an irrational hope that Germany would not lose the war), and (2) continuing the attempt to exterminate them all, in the weeks remaining until Germany's surrender. 66.108.4.183 23:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Allen Roth

I believe joining a death march was voluntary - some chose to stay behind ( they were not killed ) ie Wiesel was given the chance to stay behind in the hospital. However,Elie and most who were not sick cast their lot with the SS - not unreasonable, the Russian troops reputation was scary. The Arolson files should be able to clear up his mother and sister's fate - death certificates, his other two sister I believe lived to be old ladies. 159.105.80.141 18:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussions here / merge proposal

Whoever slapped on the merge tag did nothing to explain why he/she did this; so I removed it. Other than that, this seems to have been a place for history forgers to vent their spleen. --Leifern 13:49, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I have read that joining the march or staying behind was voluntary. Any info on whether this was true or not. Photos of "rescued" camp inmates show people who remained behind were either sick, old, etc or in very good condition.

[edit] Expansion

This article should be expanded given that the death marches were a significant part of the holocaust

Much/most of this seems to be based on the USHM. The USHM article has some very odd points - march people all the way to the sea to shot them there. Any evidence of this? Also the Auschwitz march gives numbers that would amount to 400+ bodies per mile - any link to this, I have never seen or heard of this amny bodies being recovered along any march route. It appears from the photo in the article that the "march" went past many small houses and villages - there must be some evidence of the bodies every 10 feet or so, local people would be hard pressed not to have noticed.159.105.80.141 14:48, 14 May 2007 (UTC)